I'm a relatively recent convert to cordovan, but have come to love it as I've started to wear more casual clothing, and darker colours.
It also added a layer of love visiting the Horween tannery in Chicago last year (shown below). That’s worth a read for detail on what cordovan actually is - more a membrane than a skin - and the work that goes into tanning it.
If you don’t own cordovan, or have been put off by it in the past, I’d put forward two major arguments.
First, its look and colour (particularly ‘colour 8’ from Horween) is uniquely able to bridge casual and formal clothing. The only thing that comes close is suede, and that is never quite as smart.
And second, it’s tough and pretty much waterproof. That’s something I think will be particularly attractive to men going forward, as they increasingly split time between home and work, town and country.
I didn’t wear cordovan for years.
I think the biggest thing that put me off most was just that normal, calf leather seemed more exciting. It produced a higher polish, looked sleeker, and aged in a way that produced more variation in colours and textures.
Cordovan always seemed a little dull by comparison. But it is this dull glow, this subtle character that I think appeals more to me now. Just as fancy patinas have lost all charm, so cordovan has gained it.
Cordovan is a thicker and more oiled leather than calf, and as a result ripples more than wrinkles. As it isn’t a skin, it doesn’t have a top layer, and so can look almost shadowy, with colours floating beneath the surface.
You also get a nice contrast between hard smoothness where there is reinforcement in the shoe - like the toe and heel - and a highly textured colour change where it bends.
It is this texture in the creases that I think make it bridge formal and casual clothing.
Because cordovan is shiny - it has a natural shine, and one that comes quickly back with buffing - it should be rather smart. Indeed, traditionally it was considered a formal leather, to wear with tailoring rather than denim.
But these creases make cordovan look like it’s 20 years old, almost from the first wear. And this heavy, characterful creasing is what gives cordovan shoes such a casual feel.
The loafers shown above - my Alden full-straps on the Aberdeen last - look almost black in this light. Indeed, some readers thought they were black, when they saw the recent checks post that featured them.
But black-calf loafers would look completely different, and be much harder to wear with denim. It is the oiled, worn-in look of cordovan that makes them work.
The colour is particularly appealing too. As Nick Horween told us on that tannery visit, this ‘colour 8’ makes up about 65% of their cordovan production.
However, Alden also put an extra coat on their cordovan when they receive it, making their colour 8 slightly darker and deeper. And it’s a shade I prefer - you can see the difference in my Vass pair above.
Some people describe colour 8 as burgundy, but for me it’s much closer to a mix of purple and black. When it creases, the paler colour that comes up is like a pale purple or pink (which is surprising for some, and I know puts some off).
The purple/black colour is dark enough to go with lots of materials and styles of trousers, from denim to flannels. But it is also absolutely unique - the kind of thing you recognise immediately on someone else walking down the street.
I’ve seen and worn many shoes over the years that were called burgundy, oxblood, or something similar, but I always felt they had nothing to recommend them over black or brown. Colour 8 does.
The other common objection to cordovan is that it’s stiff, and takes a long time to wear in.
It’s certainly thicker than calf. But I’ve not found it usually takes long to wear in - no longer, really, than the soles you get on a lot of English shoes. And I’ve never really had to start wearing them just a few hours a day - again, unlike some calf shoes.
Cordovan can feel heavy, certainly. My Alden Norwegian bluchers feel substantially heavier than, say, calf Dovers from Edward Green. But the sole is thicker too.
One thing that’s certainly true, is that cordovan can be particularly uncomfortable if the shoe is too tight. I recently bought a pair of Alden Jumper boots (Barrie last, below) and they were comfortable from day one. But the full-strap loafers pictured here can pinch horribly.
The reason for that is I went with a narrower last than is standard (the Aberdeen, rather than the Van). This was not easy, and required a trip to the Madison Avenue store in New York.
The reason I did that was that I’d always found the classic Van-last loafers to be too chunky for me. They just don’t go with the style of trousers I wear.
You can see that in these images with my Blackhorse Lane denim. A jean with a leg that slim looks silly with a normal Alden loafer on the bottom. Fine with wider legs, perhaps some workwear-like chinos. But otherwise no.
It was a great decision in that the loafers look lovely. And they feel lovely for most of the day. But after five or six hours of being out and about in town, they start to hurt. It’s something I will look at correcting at some point, perhaps by stretching them a little.
For now, I’d recommend going for a more comfortable fit with cordovan, if you have the chance. It’s not an Alden thing, by the way - it’s the same with my Edward Green black cordovan (shown below).
Speaking of black, I bought those EG loafers in black cordovan largely for its toughness, but it doesn’t have the same variation as colour 8, and therefore charm.
As to other colours, I haven’t tried the ‘whisky’ colour, or dark brown, but I would like to at some stage. I think I’ve just been so attracted by the unique look of colour 8 that I’ve always gone for more styles in that same colour, instead.
How to care for cordovan
Cordovan is, generally, easier to look after than calf. It benefits hugely from brushing, and from buffing (rubbing).
A fast brush will not only remove dirt, but the friction will build up heat that brings back oils and shine to the leather. I recommend doing it after every wear, if you can.
Rubbing it vigorously has a similar effect, and produces more of a shine. I recommend doing so - with a cloth - before you wear them or when you want them to look particularly good.
A small amount of cream every few weeks can help soften the leather, and feed it, but don’t use too much or you’ll get white marks in the creases. Remember it’s already pretty oily.
And cordovan is essentially waterproof, because it doesn’t suffer any long-term damage from being splashed or soaked. Splashes can produce white marks (welts) but the treatments above deal with these.
Finally, even scratches and nicks can be rubbed out to an extent, with the help of a deer bone (shown above, at Ludwig Reiter). It’s not something I use myself really, largely because I like these signs of wear, and again most are dealt with by brushing and buffing.
For a more detailed breakdown of these steps, with illustrations, Jesper has a good guide here.
There are lots more things we could say about cordovan: other tanneries, whether the extra expense is worth it, the particular costs of buying Alden in Europe at the moment. But I’ll leave those for another post, or indeed the comment discussion below.
I’ve had my Alden/Brooks tassels in #8 for more than ten years now, resoled probably three or four times. Definitely my favorite shoes. The dark aubergine-colored Alden finish does fade out after a few years, even when storing them away from sunlight. The original Horween shade underneath is still a fascinating color. Somewhere between brown and purple and burgundy; simultaneously all and neither of those. Love it!
Hi Simon, do you have any recommendations as to where I would be able to get my hands on low vamp alden loafers in the UK? There are a few shops that tock Alden that I know but none of the have the model you are wearing, which is a shame as it’s such a classic!
I’m afraid not, no. Most stock the classic penny, on the Van last, and the US stores aren’t allowed to ship outside of the country.
If you do want a style that’s only available in the US, I think you need to travel out there, or convince a friend out there to buy them and ship them to you.
Hi Simon, I think the classic penny from Alden is on the Van last, not Barrie. I myself have never seen a Barrie lasted loafer from them. Both fir similarly, though, being quite roomy!
I’m afraid I don’t know any UK retailers of Aberdeen full strap loafers, either. Clutch Cafe could probably order them for you.
Apologies, yes you’re right Visa. I was thinking of the boots with Barrie. Thanks for the correction – I’ll change it now
There are post forwarding companies, if the extra cost and hustle are worth it (cheaper than travelling, and currently available). I’ve used Reship a couple of times before. I imagine there are more like it.
Nice, thank you
Gabucci in Sweden sells Alden and while it seems like their stock is running low, they at least still have tassels on the Aberdeen last in col 8.
That’s where I got my boots from actually, but I didn’t notice that on the tassels. Thank you
Oh, I remember that from your Stockholm article now that you mention it. Alden seem to have a large love-hate following online which has so far made me steer clear of them (even though I really like the darker shade of their col 8), but I’ve been looking to purchase a pair of cordovan loafers a while now myself. Any plans on covering EB loafers (particularly their cordovan)?
Sorry, EB?
Enzo Bonafé, sorry.
Ah, I see. I have covered them a little here, but that’s all for the moment
Simon, worth noting that I’ve recently found “Brick and Mortar” from Seattle will ship to the UK. Really worth a look as they have a huge assortment of boots, loafers and shoes and seem to have a tie-in with Alden to create one off styles for their store.
Interesting, thanks Stuart. Don’t tell Alden!
I order this up for clients all the time. Feel free to send me a DM if none of your local retailers will. Shoesofstefan at Instagram
Hi Nick –
Reach out to Ealdwine in Raleigh NC USA. I don’t have an email for them handy, but the owner has an insane shell collection and the store sells Alden – including special makeups. Ask for Jim when you email them. The guy knows where to find everything all over the world. I’m in an Alden group on FB with them and their customer service seems great… though I’ve yet to buy from them. Should be an easy ship across the pond.
Cheers,
JPS
What would be your thoughts about cordovan colour 8 wholecut? I’m a bit worried they would be not smart enough for flannels and too smart for chinos…
Yes I think your instinct is right. I would avoid that combination unless it really would be an exception shoe – with a lot of other more versatile shoes in the collection
You can easily buy all necessary equipment to care for Codovan leather from http://www.afinepairofshoes.co.uk. Very nice people though !
Shell Cordovan is really quite a stellar leather to wear. I especially enjoy it punched and brogued. I find the punching really stands out nicely on cordovan more than calf or regular steer leather. I would also concur that the break-in period is about on par with non-cord shoes. Have you had any experience with Shinki cordovan? They may the second largest producer after Horween. Would you consider adding any cordovan accessories?
I haven’t tried it David, no. Interested to hear any thoughts (from you or anyone)
I wouldn’t wear a cordovan belt probably, but I have a wonderful cordovan notebook, which has aged very well (here) and I like the T-style wallet in cordovan too
It is my preferred leather for watch straps. I’ve got two where the cordovan has a hatch grain to it. Unlined with some decorative stitching. Lovely.
Nice
I have a pair of Carmina Cordovan Derbies (Detroit ) in black and they are my work wear shoes and increasingly with 501.s. I’ve avoided all creams, but rub and buff with standard kiwi polish and use trees to keep the shape. Certainly, very comfortable and quite capable of surviving a downpour or two, although I still have my old habit of stuffing with newspaper if they are very wet(military habits die hard). As you say, a very subtle charm.
Traditionally cordovan has not been that popular in the UK probably due to supply (and cost). More than one cordwainer has told me that he didn’t like working with it. I had one pair of Alden loafers in #8 years ago when I lived in the States. At that time I don’t think any UK shoe manufacturers sold cordovan. I had these loafers for years but eventually the cordovan gave out at one of the ripples. I cannot remember polishing them for the last 5 years or so of their life- just a quick rub down. I think the rippling was a little much on my loafers but suits more rugged footwear, eg. boots better.
Yes, I think makers that aren’t used to it will avoid it if they can. It’s so tough and a real pain.
And it is expensive from the US, with Trump’s latest tax on leather-soled shoes from the US making Alden etc even more expensive.
Did Trump tax exports of leather soled shoes? If so, could you provide more details? Trump’s protectionism was focused on imposing and raising tariffs. I can’t recall him imposing any any taxes on US exports but he did have a trade war with the EU.
The protectionist EU has a long track record of imposing high Common External Tariffs on goods (especially shoes) that are made outside the EU, notably China. It makes Donald Trump look like a liberal free trader!
When Trump retaliated against the high Common External Tariffs (e.g. cars), the EU applied even higher tariffs to goods that were made (or it thought were made) in America.
Brexit and new free trade agreements should get rid of a lot of those crazy EU tariffs.
Crockett & Jones has several boot models and perhaps even a shoe or two available in cordovan. I don’t think they stock color #8, but usually have whisky and dark brown, which is a little different from Alden’s Cigar brown.
I’ve just noticed… Are those pressed creases on your jeans? I don’t think I’ve seen anybody doing it
Nope, afraid not. Just a fold
Hello Simon,
When you talk about “comfortable fit”, do you mean that you had to size up in your Cordovan Edward Green or Alden shoes?
Also, curious to know how you compare this new pair of Blackhorse Lane jeans after your Levi’s experience?
Thanks in advance!
Not necessarily size up from my normal size, but if I was unsure at all, or felt I was between sizes, then picking the larger one. Prioritising comfort/space.
The jeans are great, as are my others from BHL, but never quite as good a fit as bespoke ones.
Which BHL fit are these?
See above – they’re a prototype
Lovely. My interest in good shoes started when I bought some Santoni black cordovan chukka boots in an outlet shop in Kitzbuhel for about a hundred quid. They are rugged very low key for Santoni, with treble leather soles and Norwegian welts, and abosolutely bomb proof.Kitzbuhel is an interesting place for clothes shopping, with hand made shoes from Haderer, tailoring from Prader, and Fraunschuh, who manufacture locally, and curate some lovely Italian clothes.
Are these NW1? They look slimmer on you than usual.
No, this was a slimmer prototype I was trying.
Prototype meaning that it’s not available on BHL just yet?
Meaning it might never be available. Sorry
Hi Simon,
A couple of questions if you wouldn’t mind:
1. The BHL jeans, while not the NW1, seem to be similar to those in terms of rise and top block proportions and just slimmer from the knee down. Is this correct? If yes, what model do you prefer between this prototype and the NW1?
2. I understand Alden’s LHS loafer is commonly done on the Van last. I think you have one in suede. Would you not wear that with these jeans /similarly narrow trousers?
1. Yes that’s right. They’re also a bit smaller in the waist, but that’s a fit thing, not a style one
2. No I wouldn’t. I prefer them with wider trousers, or shorts
Thanks! Which do you prefer between the prototype and the NW1?
Probably the NW1 in most respects. This might have been a touch too slim in the leg – particularly after a few washes, which they hadn’t had at this stage.
I’m not surprised that the Aberdeen last has caused you more discomfort than the Barrie, it is not nearly as forgiving. Do you wear your loafers a half size larger than your jumper boots? General wisdom among Alden fans dictates that the Aberdeen fits true to (Brannock) size, and the Barrie is roomier all around, and can be worn a half size smaller. I find this to be true. BTW, Horween has produced very differing shades of colour #8 through the years. Recent ‘vintages’ seem to be noticeably darker and more purple than shoes and boots from 4-5 years ago; those were much closer to a burgundy red. Beautiful as well, but not as smart.
Yes, Van is wider so there’s a lot more room in there, though I didn’t find going a half size down worked for me – that made the loafer too short on the toes.
And thanks on the vintages, I didn’t realise that. Mine have all been within the past 4-5 years.
You briefly mention white marks that can appear in creases from using cream, but my understanding is that cordovan naturally produces oils that can cause a white film. You just brush or wipe it off. That occurs on my Alden cordovan monks, even though I don’t use anything on them. There’s nothing wrong with the shoe, but it can be a bit of a shock if you’re not expecting it.
Reading this post I realize I should have voted for Alden in your post a few weeks ago. All of my Aldens are comfortable–the most important thing in any shoe–and Alden makes a quality product at a fair price.
Hey Rogey,
Yes white marks can appear just from the natural oils in the leather, and it’s a danger with using cream. Both. And they can both be brushed out.
Hi simon i believe the full strap pictured above is in the aberdeen last? I have very narrow heels and broader width at the front. Would you say the van or abeerden last is more suitable? There is a color 8 cordovan in the van last which I think looks good in casual and formal settings
Hi Shem,
Yes, as mentioned in the article this is on the Aberdeen last. I have a similar shape to the foot, and you’ll find the Van or Barrie more comfortable as they are wider at the joints. Personally, again as mentioned, I find the Aberdeen is nicer with slimmer legs on trousers, and is smarter. I don’t like the wider lasts with formal clothing
Hi simon thanks. On the side, do you have any plans to review the armoury in house label shoes? They may be below the price of the shoes you often wear (e.g. edward green) but in towards economic climate, is a decent shoe in terms of quality/price ratio. I’m curious to see how their loafers for example, compare to those by aldens.
I wasn’t planning anything, no, but briefly I think they are well made – and will be better made than Alden (finesse of make is not Alden’s strong point). Personally I wasn’t that keen on the lasts, which surprised me given they were partly designed by Yohei Fukuda as I recall
very interesting article, as always. My experience is different. My Alden Tassel Loafers on the Aberdeen last in the E fitting (Alden’s widest fitting), are my most comfortable shoes. I generally struggle with CJ loafers (only come in one width standard), as I have to go up in size to accomodate my wide forefoot, which leads to a shoe that is a bit too wide at heal.
Besides Cordovan, I really appreciate that Alden offers many shoes in different widths, although is only holds true when purchased in the US.
Hi Simon,
You make a compelling case. I used to feel the same way about suede as you once did about cordovan. It seems both are in fact lower maintenance than calf leather.
Ignoring any particular gaps in one’s collection, what shoes types do you think are most versatile when made from cordovan? Loafers seem popular, but I see markers also offering boots – which given your comments seem heavy and perhaps less comfortable.
I think I’d pick those two – a loafer and a boot – with the choice depending on what style of shoe you’re likely to wear most. I don’t find the boots heavy
I invested in my first pair of Alden Black Cordovan Tassel Loafer in January 1981 and still wear them today. It cost me 20% of my (then) monthly salary. RO! – Priceless.
I highly recommend the Alden restoration service.
I’d love to see something one day on leather alternatives for shoes. It would be super cool to see you commission something vegan just to see what’s achievable if you apply the same craft and taste to a different material. Obviously that’s niche interest (perhaps just me) but it could be an opportunity to flex some skills with a different set of constraints.
Thank you Simon, I would be interested to look into that too. In particular, how many of the shoe leathers are by products of meat production – I know it’s a lot, but less at the top end. And how many of the vegan alternatives are plastics that won’t biodegrade.
Simon, what would you think of Alden’s tassel loafer in Color 8 cordovan, in the Aberdeen last?Leffot has it:https: //leffot.com/brands/alden/563
I think they’d be very nice, with the caveats of the Aberdeen fit, mentioned above.
And I do like tassels, which is largely personal.
I also do like tassel loafers, but find them a bit hard to wear without appearing somewhat affected (they are a bit unusual and sadly often worn by a certain type of fashion-guy, at least were I am from). Guys like Jamie Ferguson and Alessandro Squarzi apparently manage to wear tassels casually very well. Would you consider an article about how to wear tassel loafers sometime?
Sure, though to be honest I don’t think there’s anything to how to wear them. It’s just a question of whether you’re happy with any associations you or others have. They are a little more showy than a loafer without tassels, but that’s about it
I have Alden’s tassel loafers in their old hunter green suede. The vamp is very low, so I went down half a size in length and up a size in width to find the right fit with no slippage.
I am glad you have become a convert to shell cordovan, Simon. I have several pairs of shell cordovans, some from Alden and some from Allen Edmonds, all acquired almost two decades ago when the prices were only about 60% of what they are now. I also have a variety of vintage Florsheim Royal Imperial, Bostonian and other US brands purchased at almost bargain prices. They are truly priceless, especially when in good condition. These were mostly from vintage shops and eBay. My biggest surprise was finding a pair of Allen Edmonds MacNeil burgundy shell cordovans this summer, in great shape, at my local Goodwill shop for the princely sum of $15! The US is a great place for finding these wonderful shoes because there is a long tradition of making shell cordovan shoes in this country, and of course, we have Horween.
I have had some of my old shells recrafted by a local cobbler who did excellent work until he retired last month. I also have Kirby Allison’s cordovan care kit (complete with deer bone) which comes in handy to smooth the ripples a bit. But I must say I rather like the ripples, and when brown shell acquires an olive patina around the ripples with age, I absolutely love the effect.
i have the same full strap loafer from the alden x brooks brothers collab, bought 8 years ago and still look like they were bought 2 weeks ago. easily my fav shoes for the summers. i find the low vamp a bit unsuitable for the winters though.
Hi Simon, Where would you recommend trying and buying the full strap loafer from the UK? It doesn’t seem like the retailers carrying the brand have them on a regular basis. And your pair look totally dark, so dark that I find it difficult to believe it is a No.8. Did you order a ‘dark’ No. 8 by any chance? Great look. Worth every short term pinch!
Thanks.
See comments above on availability in the UK Steven.
And no, this was a regular No.8…
I quite like the cream sweater you are wearing in one of the photos. Where is it from?
From Trunk – their in-house shetland
Simon,
I have never liked wearing brown shoes with either navy suits or charcoal suits, as I prefer the shoe to be darker than suit, and therefore opt for black. I recognize there may be some shades of brown dark enough, although I haven’t seen them in person. Assuming the shoe itself is smart enough, how would the colour 8 cordovan go with a navy or charcoal suit? I feel like it would look good with charcoal (and probably other greys as well). Not so sure about navy… What are your thoughts?
Hi,
I actually find personally that the colour goes well with navy or grey, but I don’t think the shoes are ever really smart enough.
On dark-brown shoes with suits, I love that combination. See something like my oundles from Edward Green for example.
Simon,
A couple questions regarding your statement you never think cordovan is smart enough for a suit.
1. What about a suit lower down the formality scale, say a mid Grey flannel?
2. Correct me if I’m wrong, but haven’t I seen you wear suede shoes with pretty smart suits? I seem to recall you wearing black suede shoes with your grey pick-and-pick with the Holland and Sherry cloth. Is cordovan not as smart as suede? I would have figured it to be more formal.
Thanks
1. Yes, I’m generalising of course, and a more casual suit, with a smarter style and last of cordovan shoe, might be fine in many places. There’s no rule here – just bear in mind that it’s a more casual material.
2. Like suede. It too is casual, and in a smart office I wouldn’t wear it with a smart suit. Whether it’s more casual than cordovan, well the material alone is probably more casual, but cordovan tends to be made into more casual shoes. In both cases the material is just one factor.
Simon,
Thank you for the high quality of your columns. These have been so informative since I found your site about 2 years ago. Appreciate your site, especially during the coronavirus pandemic.
Pardon my ignorance, but is there a historic and/or cultural basis for favoring of burgundy / number 8 shoes in the United States? Here in NYC, they are far more common than I have seen on trips to London. The cultural association of shoes is fascinating to me. I live in topsiders during the summer months and these also seem to have strong ties to the Northeastern United States.
Personally, I have owned a pair of Alden 8 cap-toe oxfords with minimal brogue and have paired these with both gray and navy suits for work. In my far less informed opinion, they go very well with traditional navy, but especially mid gray worsted or flannel. I receive comments/compliments on these shoes (far more than others), typically from older gentlemen who tell me they have a similar pair and have worn it for decades. Mine are about 7 or 8 years old and have become better with age.
Thank you.
Hi there,
No problem at all. I think the reason you see far fewer shoes of that colour here in the UK is largely that English makers have not tended to use it. And as mentioned, most burgundy/oxblood isn’t as nice as the colour 8.
Plenty of people do wear topsiders, or boat shoes, over here too. But they do have particular ties to the US Northeast, just because they became popular there, and were worn more in that community. It’s usually mostly a combination of availability and then fashion.
Your Aldens might look great with suits. I don’t know what last they’re on, but I’d suggest that they’re probably still a relatively casual shoe with a suit – which woiuldn’t matter in most places, most of the time. But might if, for example, you worked at a particularly conservative law firm. And perhaps somewhere that wasn’t used to that colour. Again, associations and familiarity.
S
Simon, I think that Alden cordovans in the US are perceived to be higher on the formality scale than they are in the UK. Part of that is the cost factor with people associating pricier with more formal. Part of that is that tassel and penny loafers are an acceptable item of businesswear in the US, particularly in the Northeast and Mid Atlantic and especially among politicians and government types around Washington DC, where Alden has one of its three US flagship stores close to the White House.
Thank you Edouard
Please do not wear black shoes with jeans. Please.
Just checking you don’t think I am here? I’m not
A grain Piccadilly can still fit with a pair of denim…isn’t it?
Would also say there are lots of great casual combinations with black shoes. E.g., heavy black winter boots with denim can look great. And when it’s grey denim, black shoes actually look best.
Good points, yes
My oldest shoes in shell is a pair of 15 years old Alden split-toes on Plaza last in #8. Very well worn. They were never even close to being as dark as your’s, rather a true burgundy.
Now, however, they are best described as brown-ish with a slight burgundy tint.
Quite different to what they looked like when new, but even more beutiful.
Dear Simon,
great post, as we are used to it!
I am considering buying a pair of cordovan loafer, but I am not sure, which to go for. Alden (same as yours) or Carmina? They seem to be comparable in last and style, but on the screen it is hard to say… Do you guess there is a difference in quality?
I would appreciate your thoughts and maybe another recommendation!
Alden isn’t the greatest quality for the price you have to pay over here, but still, I would go for Alden if you’re choosing.
If you want another recommendation, look at the handful that Crocketts have in cordovan
Any particular misgivings about Carmina? Is it in general or specifically their cordovan? Thanks.
In general – have a read of the review of their boots here. Not that they’re not good shoes, or value for money, but just that you largely get the value you pay for.
Thanks for your reply, Simon. I totally agree that, with most non-designer shoes, you get what you pay for. Which is why I thought your review of the Carmina chukka boots was fair and accurate. But I still don’t quite understand your preference for Alden over Carmina on quality/value grounds. In the US, at least, and speaking solely about each company’s cordovan offer, their pricing is very similar. I don’t currently own either but I have held, tried and examined examples from both and, at least from the quality signs that such examination can discover, I have to say that it seemed to me as though Carmina had the upper hand.
To start with, both use Horweem cordovan. I am not sure if there is much variance in the quality of cordovan offered by Horween (as there is, for instance, with European tanneries). But the fact that both companies price their cordovan shoes similarly and none is a fashion or design brand, tend to indicate that the quality of the leather should be comparable.
Then there is the leather sole. Alden states that they use “oak leather soles” (likely meaning oak bark-tanned). Carmina uses JR Redenbach oak bark tanned soles, which are considered some of the finest, comparable to Bakers, and used in Edward Green’s shoes. Maybe Alden uses JR soles as well but, even then, there does not appear to be any advantage to Alden.
And then there’s the general quality of workmanship. Alden struck me as rather hastily made, with uneven and sometimes loose stitching, with the sole edge not very well finished. On the contrary, I found Carmina’s work to be much cleaner in the pairs I’ve checked.
Am I missing something? I would sincerely appreciate your guidance as I am currently deciding which way to go for a pair of cordovan tassel loafers. Thanks in advance.
I wouldn’t say that Alden is superior in terms of quality. If anything, I’d say that Carmina is more cleanly made.
But I prefer the styles from Alden. The Carmina styles often seem like a bit of a mismatch to me – too smart a style (eg thin welt) for the leather.
And I prefer the Alden shade of the colour 8 cordovan too.
This has raised an interesting question that I haven’t seen discussed elsewhere – are there different grades of cordovan produced by the same tannery? Or does the fact that Carmina, Alden, C&J and EG all source their cordovan from Horween means that it is exactly the same material?
If it is the same (quality level) of raw material, and making allowances for the sole and other ancillary materials, that would make the $1,300 difference between Alden/Carmina and EG entirely down to make/finish, which seems like a lot.
I guess my point is: I am happy to pay for calf or suede EG principally because the leathers they use are at the absolute top of the industry (as is their make for GYW shoes) and there is an -in my experience- noticeable difference in how the leather wears from day one and especially how it ages. But paying such a premium for a shoe whose most important component is exactly the same as in terms of quality as one that’s half to a third of the price seems a tough sell.
Simon, curious to know if you have any thoughts on the last post re: quality of cordovan sourced by makers. Thank you.
Not really I’m afraid. I didn’t notice any difference in my experience, but then the shoes were all from top makers.
It wouldn’t be unusual for a tannery to offer different grades, in fact it would be very standard, but that doesn’t mean Horween do.
The quality of Alden’s soles is rather poor. No comparison to Rendenbach soles. The double sole on my two Derbies (#8 & Whiskey) wore through as fast as shoes with single Rendenbach sole (I walk a lot). Since I had them resoled with R. double soles they are still going strong.
The stacks on the heels Alden uses are of bonded leather which loses form when it gets wet. After repeated exposure to wet pavement the heel begins to bulge at the rim and one can see the layers. Not pretty. Never had this with any other leather soled / heeled shoe.
Thanks Quentin. I think that shows how Alden from a make point of view is really mid-range or lower – the expectations get rather inflated outside the US by the prices, and particularly the extra price of cordovan.
I have an old pair of C&J Harvards (unlined cordovan pennyloafers – btw are all cordovan shoes unlined?) that I have kicked around quite badly. They have the typical waves instead of creases mostly, but also some creases in which the texture of the leather has visibly changed, looking dull and a little pulverized on the surface. Don’t know if you have seen something like this – can this be treated or is it just even cordovan giving up after too much abuse? (I do brush them from time to time.)
It sounds like they maybe haven’t had shoe trees in them all the time as well? That would have helped keep that upper smoother.
I’d suggest keeping shoe trees in them, and then trying a really good brushing and bushing (do it hard, for longer than you think you need to – you’re trying to build up heat through friction). And if that doesn’t work, try a little cream.
Hi Simon, nice to see you moving into this area of things, been a reader for about 8 years now and this is my first time commenting I think.
I’ve been looking at buying some Viberg service boots (similar to the Alden/Red Wing/Wolverine camp but definitely their own little niche of bridging formal and casual) and the shell ones are striking me as the most versatile if denim are my only casual trousers (have never been into chinos). Do you think these in Dark Cognac cordovan would work with something like grey flannels as the top end of the formality scale? Perhaps better if the toe cap was unbrogued or just a plain toe, or if the edges were dressed a little darker?
I can’t put my finger on exactly what makes these distinctly less formal than the Aldens, but they’re also one of Viberg’s most formal offerings.
Thanks so much and take care!
https://viberg.com/products/service-boot-cap-toe-horween-dark-cognac-shell-cordovan
Nice to hear from you Dante.
But I’m afraid no, I don’t think they would work with smarter trousers like flannels. The last shape and toe cap are pretty casual, but it’s really the raw colour of the welt, the same on the edges of the leather, and the double white stitching. All of them stand out a lot, and you wouldn’t get anything like that on a smart shoe.
Fair enough, thanks! The search continues for a boot that can go with nice denim and smarter trousers. I’ve seen some people in more casual cities pull off balmorals or derby boots like a Galway with quality denim, but I’m a little young to pull off that kind of boot in general. Never been big on even smart chukkas or chelseas either unfortunately, especially because the Canadian west coast is a relentless sea of Blundstones. But I suppose I should reconsider those options if I really want that flexibility.
Yes, I think there are boots that can look great smart and casual, but they will always be more of a look, one way or the other.
For example, my Edward Green boots here could look good with both – but they’d be a fairly smart, sleek look with denim.
Hey Simon,
Thoughts on grained cordovan? It is intriguing to me.
Simon, would appreciate your thoughts on the Drake’s by Alden cordovan chukka boots? See here: https://www.drakes.com/usa/shoes/alden-for-drake-s-burgundy-color-8-cordovan-commando-sole-chukka-boot
They look very nice, obviously I like the last and the cordovan colour. Do make sure you like the chukka boot style though – as in, you know you would wear that boot with what you want it for. Personally I like that in their unlined suede boot, as something casual, but I’d be unsure of it in a chukka
interesting, the colour 8 in that drake’s photo is more red/burgundy than your colour 8 full strap above.
Yes, I think that’s partly the photography. And partly that mine have darkened a little with wear.
Is cordovan waterproof even without the coating the Alden adds to it?
Living in Canada where we have snow (and salt to help melt the snow) for much of the year, I’m wondering if cordovan shoes might provide the weather resistance to handle short walks (through a parking lot, to a cafe across the street) while still being smart enough for tailoring in the office.
Yes, they have similar waterproof properties – though now you mention it, I do find non-Alden shoes have developed more ‘welts’ than the Alden ones.
Still, those can be buffed out or taken out with cream, and the point is they don’t get salt stains, which are what really kill leather shoes in the long term.
Yesterday morning I got an email about some Enzo Bonafe loafers in “Colour 8” cordovan and I was wondering “what is that”?
Later in the day I read this article. The timing could have not been better!
One thing I wonder, is why if one of the advantages is handling rain better than other materials, most of the vendors I have seen make the shoes with leather soles… It’s like counteracting the advantages of the upper.
Well, most people aren’t buying them as a waterproof shoe necessarily.
Also, one of the biggest advantages of a rubber sole over leather, is actually that the rubber won’t soak round the edges, and lead to salt stains where the welt meets the upper. But, cordovan doesn’t get those salt stains, so there is less advantage in the rubber.
Thanks Simon! I decided to buy a pair of dark brown cordovan loafers from Crockett & Jones shortly after the article, and they arrived today. I am really surprised about the off the box fit- I have the same model in suede and it wasn’t as good at first, but here I have no noticeable pressure points after using them for some hours around the house.
Interesting, thanks Dario
Simon
A shirtmaker is telling me he is worried the Chambray Cloth might not be enough for a shirt (1.1 x 2.5m). Is this a valid concern, is there anything I can say to reassure them?
Well, it depends a little on how they make, but far more on your size and height. On very large or very tall men, there might be issues.
I think it’s up to him. He will know how much cloth he uses for his shirts. I know it’s fine for the vast majority of makers and people, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it will work for him and you.
Simon, it is a great post. Very interesting the combination of loafers and selvedge denim.
I love loafers but I have a high instep and wide feet. Do you think that Alden or Edward Green have lasts for loafers which can fit with wide feet ?
Alden certainly do, yes. Their lasts are generally pretty wide and accommodating. They also offer a greater range of widths than most makers.
I haven’t yet added any cordovan footwear to my collection yet, so I found this article intriguing. The big appeal for me is it’s toughness and waterproof properties, as you note. Am I alone therefore in finding it curious to see its use in loafers and often offered with leather soles? Unless I want to go the MTO route, I’ve got 1 rubber soled option from 6 offerings at Edward Green and 0 from 11 offerings at C&J, which I find puzzling!
Someone made this comment above Alex. The reason is that while the waterproof nature might be the big attraction for you, it isn’t for everyone or hasn’t been the reason they’ve been worn in the past.
Absolutely agree Color 8 is very versatile and you can never truly find a calf to match that color (though I have tried).
Personally not the biggest fan of cordovan, though for a different reason (total ok with roll vs crease). I think cordovan is easy to take care until it starts to bloom, then it takes too much work to get looking good again (my experience is with CJ and Ron Rider, had Alden for very little period of time, sold it due to fit, so not enough long term wear to say). Before it bloom, yes it’s pretty easy to take care of it, once it starts to bloom takes too much time after a downpour vs. calf.
How do you like to wear your Alden Norwegian bluchers? I like the style generally (sort of a dressed-up Doc Martin for the urban professional), and I assume you wear them with denim, which is a nice look (although I think the images above are actually from an article you did on similar Kaan shoes, correct?). Are the Alden versions sufficiently versatile to wear with flannel, cords, and cavalry twill, maybe with an appropriate sports coat?
Hi,
Yes you’re right, those are the Kaans, I don’t have any pictures of the Aldens.
I wear them with denim, with chinos, and at the most with flannels and knitwear. But I wouldn’t wear them with smarter trousers like cavalry twills, or with a jacket.
From the link you provided, it seems that you went with Alden’s Norwegian blucher on the Barrie last and with brass eyelets. May I ask why did you prefer this make up to the more common Aberdeen last and blind eyelets? Thanks.
Hi,
The Aberdeen last wasn’t available at the time. And given how the shoes will be worn (mostly denim) the slimness was not that much of a concern.
Same on the eyelets. This is not intended to be a dressy shoe, so the brass eyelets fitted well.
Simon,
I have wanted a pair of cordovan tassel loafers for decades. As many Americans of my generation did (and still do) we wore tassel loafers with pin and chalk stripe suits in classic corporate settings. I have been talked out of purchasing cordovan shoes by Alden and others because of two issues. One, I have a very wide foot, US EEE. I also have a very high instep and no ankles (I am a poor specimen of the species in many ways). The second is that I was directly told that because the leather is thicker, they make your feet sweat more, especially if you already have that tendency. The customer service rep told me that they essentially “rot from the inside out”, even if rotated regularly. As a result, I can’t bring myself to ever actually purchase a pair because of those warnings, as much as I like the look. They simpy cost too much to take the chance, in my view. Any comments on these issues?
Tom in New Hampshire
I can’t really comment on the first issue, but I think the second sounds exaggerated. My feet get very hot, and I’ve noticed a small difference in my boots, but certainly nothing in my loafers. They’re so open anyway, with that low vamp.
Simon – I like the cut on your Blackhorse Lane jeans – could you advise as to which model you are wearing?
Lots of details above in the comments – sorry, too much to repeat here!
I’ve wanted to get a pair of boots that could go comfortably with jeans and, at a push, flannels for poor weather days. Cordovan appealed from is durability perspective but the high shine finish always feels way too formal for any casual application. I’m somewhat surprised that you’ve gotten over this aspect yourself and somewhat wish I could follow suit.
Yes, I know what you mean. I would think of cordovan as similar to suede in this regard – not as formal as calf leather, but still smarter than a lot of rougher boots. I’d certainly wear them with, for example, charcoal flannels, knitwear, and a raglan coat.
Welcome to cordovan;-) I’ve had the same Aldens as you for at least 15 years. they are easy to take care of and Alden refurbishment is well worth it. Additionally, I have a pair of Johnston and Murphy Crown Aristocrafts that are at least 30 years old and have been refurbished several times. J&M no longer makes anything worthwhile .
Whats the verdict on the jumper boots? Been thinking about getting them from gabucci for a while now. Thanks!
They’re really nice. Fit is great, love the colour obviously, and the last isn’t as round as I thought it might be. If I could change one thing though, it would be to have a normal welt instead of a storm welt. I think that would make them just a tad smarter, while still being casual enough for jeans etc.
Good to see that you mention Vass.
I have two pairs of Cordovans from Vass. Both made bespoke for me 21 years ago. Obviously, they have both been resoled. They are among my favourite shoes, as the fit and comfort is great.
Simon
Curious if you’ve seen the Bit Ivy loafer in Color 16, a deeper burgundy version of Color 8 on pre-order from Leffot? I’m considering adding a loafer to my shoe collection to fill a gap. Any recommendations regarding color and style would be appreciated. As always, versatility is paramount. Cheers!
I have seen that, and it does look like a nice colour. Personally I don’t like bit loafers though. It’s personal and cultural, like many of these things, but I associate the bit loafer strongly with cheap Gucci ones in the 80s, and all associated knock-offs. They were the kind of thing a flash salesman would wear. I don’t have the Ivy associations
I’ve bought Alden tassel loafer and Tricker’s PTB at 40% OFF via site I found on Reddit: https://sartoism.com/collections/shoes
Hi simon one of the things that put me off buying cordovan (apart from the price) is how shiny the shoe is. It gleams like nobody’s business in shops selling them,
. Does the shine dull quickly? Kinda strange in a casual outfit if your shoes shine that much
It does dull, yes, but can also be brought back up to a shine easily if you want it to. As mentioned in the article, I think it’s that versatility that enables it to bridge formal and casual a bit.
Have a look at my loafers here. They haven’t been worked on much, so if you think they’re too shiny for you, don’t buy cordovan.
As a long time fan of both Alden and Cordovan, I’m glad to see you’re a convert. The understated look and outstanding durability of the shoes have made them a favorite of traditional menswear retailers in the U.S. for years. I have a pair of Cordovan shoes from Crockett and Jones, and they’re well constructed, but a more snug fit than Alden’s.
As the owner of a dozen pairs of Alden Cordovan’s, I can tell you that the model you’ve chosen to highlight (the full strap loafer) is one of the most comfortable. Another model you might want to try is the monk strap. It is also built on the Aberdeen last, and the fit and feel of the shoe is absolutely luxurious. It’s also a very versatile shoe for dressing up or dressing down.
Thanks John, great to have the recommendation.
I’m also a newcomer to shell cordovan, but I am hooked. I’ve purchased half a dozen pairs over the last year. The color 8 is my favorite but I can’t wait to a pair of long wing bluchers in whiskey SC.
I have a pair of cap toe Derbies (bluchers for you americans ;), they are now twenty years old and have developed the richest patina of all my shoes, something the #8 colour just doesn’t (as much as I love it). It looks almost as if some patina artist (think Berluti) had a go at them.
Though, with all the fats in the leather I have never found it necessary to administer shoe cream or polish.
I just buff them to a mirror shine with a section of tights (pantyhose) over the horse brush. Only when there is a deeper scratch I apply some Saphir Renovateur on the spot (which with buffing gets applied over the whole shoe then).
Cordovan comes as far as maintenance goes right after suede. Brush of dust and buff them, and you’re done in 99% of cases.
Dear Simon,
I was hoping to get the benefit of your advise. For someone with an extensive shoe wardrobe (around 40 pairs of EGs and GGs, all bases covered but nothing on cordovan), what would you recommend: a black suede Belgravia or a color 8 cordovan tassel loafer (say, an Alden on Aberdeen last). For reference, I already have Belgravias in dark oak, black calf, dark brown suede and snuff suede. Thank you kindly.
Wow, that’s quite a collection.
I’d definitely go for the Alden tassel loafer, as that would add something genuinely different to what you already have.
Simon – I just received a pair of Alden Cordovan chukkas, do you recommend shoe trees for storage? Thanks
Yes, definitely. Or at the very least, for the first day or two after wear. That’s the most important time.
You make a very good case of cordovan loafers with dark denim . Ive always somehow found that look somehow silly on me. Perhaps that loafers look different on different bodytypes.
Anyways, the Alden Indy color 8 shell is often said to be super versatile. That it fits in almost everywhere. I wonder if you could give a perhaps cooler perspective. I have never checked them out in the flesh myself.
https://aldenmadison.com/collection/indy-boot-color-8-shell-cordovan-40508h/
I like the Indy boot, but more as something casual to just go with jeans. I wouldn’t wear that style with anything remotely smart. I think the jumper boot is smarter, and that’s why I went for that rather than the Indy
Cordovan works well in combination with calf leather if you are going down the bespoke route. Cleverley made me some boots with cordovan around the bottom and a hatch grain calf at the top.
Simon why would you be reluctant to buy/wear a belt made of Cordovan ? Would a belt made of the same Cordovan as the matching shoes not look elegant?
I don’t really ever try to match shoes.and belts – it risks looking too affected and matchy. But the reason I’d be less likely to wear a cordovan belt is that it would be so stiff, and I dislike heavy, stiff belts, for example in bridle leather
Hi Simon
I’ve owner 2 pairs of Cordovan shoes in recent years, one by Church’s (in a plain Derby) and the other by Crockett & Jones (in a Brogue identical to the ones they did for Polo Ralph Lauren). Both were in a burgundy. They were nice and I’d always wanted a pair but like most things, the wanting was better than the having. There was nothing wrong with them (although they were a bit stiffer than calf) but, for the price, they were just a bit underwhelming and I occasionally felt the need to tell people they were Cordovan. Off the thread slightly, but I’m now big into Lizard and other exotics. Would love to see an article on types of shoe leathers (wallets, belts, etc.). Crocodile is my favourite but can be fiercely expensive….but I don’t feel the need to tell people when wearing them !!!
Good Morning Simon. I have had two very different experienced with Cordovan.
My first pair were purchased from Brookes Brothers in Chicago. They were one of the best pieces of footwear I have ever worn; always smart and shiny in the the Cherry Black that you describe. I wore them until the welt could not stand up to another repair.
The second pair produced by a well respected British manufacturer were rubbish. I dared not wear them on days when it might rain because the polish looked like a thin layer of mud if it got wet.
I also noticed that the lining leather wore out very quickly.
Both pairs were saddle loafers
I suspect that Brookes Brothers also added the additional finish that Alden use and which you describe.
Your BB were by Alden and pretty sure all Alden Shell Cordovan has this acrylic finish, most others don’t add that to their shell.
This was a perfect primer for the unique characteristics of Cordovan. I have just one question: do we know whether any of the colours in the C&J cordovan range are in fact color no. 8? They have ‘burgundy’, ‘dark brown’ and black ? Lovely though the Aldens look, the associated hassle and inflated costs of getting them over the pond are significant deterrents for now.
P.S. (?) I finally ordered the PS watch cap in red, and the rapid despatch and sweetly worded confirmation message already have me convinced it was a great decision to do so.
Nice article, thanks Simon.
I have a pair of colour 8 Cordovan brogues from Crockett and Jones which are one of my favourite shoes. It gets compliments often. I’ve been thinking about a pair of boots in Cordovan. Have you been happy with your boots in general? Or do you think cordovan is less versatile in boots?
Incidentally, which Blackhorse lane model are you jeans Simon?
Hi Noel.
I have been pleased with the boots, yes. There are some comments above about those, as well as about the jeans
Simon, I have approx. 8 pairs of the color 8 from Alden.. but not these loafers. I just might get a pair.. they look great with Denim. and I think would look great dressed up. May I ask what pair of Blackhorse Denim you are wearing in the photos? I like how those are slim but not TOO slim if you know what I mean. Thank you.
I do – see above in the comments. They’re a prototype so not currently available I’m afraid
Interesting article Simon. What do you think of cordovan shoes made by UK manufacturers like Crocketts?
I don’t have any from Crocketts, but did have a pair from Edward Green (mentioned above). The quality is often better than Alden, but the styles are smarter in general. Also like the colour 8 shade that only comes from Alden
Hi Simon – great post. I bought some cordovan (Horween) derby from Church’s some time ago thinking that they were going to get that kind of patina that Alden’s colour 8 gets and, unfortunately, it never happened.
Although not a number 8, I really like those cordovan Vass. I think that your review was not that favourable but I think that they have a fantastic shape and combination of materials and sole. A very elegant and distinctive casual shoe. But then I am biased as I really like Vass.
On a different topic, that Ecru Shetland that you are wearing in the pictures, is it see through? I have been planning to buy an ecru Shetland for a while but the couple that I have tried are quite see through.
Thanks Diego.
Yes I think those Vass would have been good had they been the correct size. And ideally a darker no8 shade, but not as big a factor.
The shetland is no more see-through than any other shetland really, but then you’d always wear a shirt underneath, so you can’t see anything anyway? I’d find it far too scratchy against the skin with anything less underneath anyway
Thanks for your response. Yes, always with a shirt or a long sleeve t-shirt underneath. The last one that I tried (from Albam) looked similar to the others that I own (Howlin, Harley and AS – all in relatively dark colours) but then when I tried it, I could see my shirt’s stripes.
Ah, I see. No I didn’t have that issue with this Trunk one
Understood. Thanks again for taking the time to reply.
Simon, you mention your black cordovan loafer from E. Green and your relative lack of enthusiasm for it when compared with color 8. Wouldn’t you say that a black cordovan loafer is more casual than a black calf one, and perhaps comparable to a black suede one?
I can see why you’d say that, but I haven’t found it to be so. I think it’s because the cordovan is a single, flat colour and so doesn’t get as much of the variation of other colours – like no 8 shown here. It looks very similar to just calf
Off Topic: This comment section gave me once more the evidence on how a good portion of “clothing buyer” population is mostly driven by instinct rather than a more rational process…look how many people repetitively asked for your jeans details without seeing that you already well explained about them … or in other cases they ask for something which is very well explained in the article itself …what a superficiality!! Gents! READ!!!! (“Think”would set the bar too high…I’m aware 🙂 )
…and here comes how people doing your job can leverage meaningful portion of business for certain sectors…in this case the clothing industry.
As usual a lovely read.
Have a good weekend’s
H
I’ve been wearing Alden cordovan shoes for thirty years now. My father and grandfather owned many pairs and Alden’s wingtips and tassel loafers are a tradition amongst us here in New England. Personally, the single monkstrap in color 8 is my absolute favorite. It can be worn with a suit, odd trousers, and jeans. Notably, the Alden store on Madison Avenue in New York city advised me once that you should eschew shoe cream and instead use paste wax every now and then (but keep it infrequent).
Dear Simon,
one mor question. Do you think that the cordovan loafer are as versatile as a pair of brown loafer? In your article about your Belgravian loafer, you write, that these shoes are your favorite and most versatile shoes.
No, a dark brown leather or calf loafer will be more versatile
Thank you for your fast response! Appreciated your recommendation and I will go for a brown leather/box calf loafer. I guess the cordovan loafer are some day an add on, but for now not what I would wear daily…
Hi Simon,
Thanks for another wonderful article! Looking forward to more coverage of cordovan in PS!
If I remember correctly, you wear US 9E in EG 184 last. Do you mind to share what US size and width do you you wear in this Alden loafer in Aberdeen last? Many thanks in advance!
No worries.
Normally I wear 8.5 E in all EG lasts.
These Alden on the Aberdeen last are size 9 US, so roughly 8 UK, D width.
I have the same question as the guy above:-) Just so that I understand you correctly Simon: the Alden loafers you are wearing are a size 9 US/D width? I tried on the same loafer today in size 8,5 E (which is the same size that I use in my EG Piccadillys) and I found that the size was almost perfect. Even though I noticed that the Aldens are slightly wider/more roomy when compared with my EG`s – especially in the heal area. But from what you write here about comfort and opting for the larger size (if in doubt) I figure that I ought to go for the size 8,5/ E rather than trying my luck on a pair in size 8,5 D ? Any particular reason why you sized up in these Aldens?
Yes that’s right. Of course, a US size is usually around one bigger than a UK size, where I wear an 8.5, sometimes an 8.
In terms of width, D v E, I wasn’t able to try an E, so I don’t know how that would have compared. But I doubt I’d want these any wider. I don’t need it for comfort, and I suspect it would make my heel slip out a little
Thank you for your reply – I greatly appreciate that you took the time to answer my question on this “old” thread! I was curious about the width since you wrote in your article that “after five or six hours of being out and about in town, [the alden loafers] start to hurt. It’s something I will look at correcting at some point, perhaps by stretching them a little”. I assumed that you thought about stretching the width of these shoes (and not the length 🙂 Perhaps you didn`t need to? Some people argue that cordovan stretches (like calf) but I have no experience with breaking in cordovan shoes…
No worries Henrik – these posts are never old, as you can see from the regular comments over the years.
Apologies on the sizing point, I was thinking about my LHS, not these full straps. These are narrow, yes, and I do plan to try stretching them. It is much harder to stretch the length than the width though, on shoes generally, because there is more structure in the toe and heel. It’s generally not possible to do much.
I don’t find cordovan stretches as much as calf, no, but I also don’t find calf stretches enough for it to affect my sizing choices
Simon,
Thank you for a most interesting article. I bought the Alden Plain Toe Blucher in Colour 8 at the San Francisco Alden in 2016, and returned to the same shop for the Black version in 2017.
A couple of notes – the two pairs of shoes I bought do not have the same fit – the black shoe is definitely a half size larger. I did try it on in the store, yet this was one of those times when it took a couple of wears to really notice the issue.
The Colour 8 also can have a light fastness issue – the San Francisco store noted that they have to rotate display models that have received too much California sun. What I notice (and I’ve seen online photos that confirm my experience) is that the two shoes are not aging or developing a patina the same way.
I do love these shoes. I like the comfort, the all day wearability. I’ve walked around Canada, the US, the UK (even some hills in the Lake District), France and Switzerland in these shoes. They seem to be similar to my childhood notion of what an adult men’s shoe looked like.
I rarely wear them with a suit – they are not especially sleek or fashionable. Connoisseurs sometimes notice them and appreciatively comment. I am also fearing they are already past their prime – I have a deer bone, the Alden Cordovan polish, etc., but the upper fronts are wavy, and I don’t see the patina improving over time. I’ll have to check some of the online guides further.
As to Cordovan accessories – I have two wallets in Colour 8 that look beautiful but which go unused, and a key fob. I’ve also ordered Cordovan belts (other colours). Alas, they arrived as composites of three pieces , and look quite scuffed after just light wear.
Lovely experience Stephen, thank you.
On the waviness, are you keeping shoe trees in them after wear?
Simon
Hello,
I have gain knowledge from your writing.
“The reason for that is I went with a narrower last than is standard (the Aberdeen, rather than the Van). This was not easy, and required a trip to the Madison Avenue store in New York. ”
so from the above what did the Madison Avenue store did for you? Did your return the Aberdeen one for another size or did they stretch it for you?
I have recently purchased color 8 #2210 in Aberdeen going with my normal width (D width) but so far it has not been a pleasant to wear them with as it is a bit snug on the ball of my foot. Do you have experience on this or advice for me. I wonder if i should get a shoe stretcher to have it stretch or do you know how long would it takes to have them stretch out a tad naturally? i think all i need is another 3-4mm wider.
thanks and any advice would be highly appreciated!
Hi Charles,
I’m glad to hear that, though it sounds like you have misunderstood slightly.
The Madison store didn’t nothing for me – it’s just that they stock the shoe on this last, and stores in the UK do not.
Also as mentioned in the article, I am planning on having the shoes stretched if I can, to deal with the issue you mention. Cordovan will not really stretch on its own
S
Simon,
In my experience, Alden shell cordovan shoes can be rather smart (or not). It depends on the last, the model, and any custom features. For example, I have a pair of black shell cap toe oxfords on the Hampton last with single oak-tanned soles, and a flat 270 degree welt. I can wear these in the “smartest” of corporate/legal office environments in Manhattan and they are often the most appropriate and nicest looking shoes in the building. On the other hand, Alden makes some iconic casual shoes which many believe look best sockless and paired with shorts. To generalize about Alden is difficult as they offer eleven different lasts in a wide range of lengths (US6 to US15) and widths (AA to EEEE), many different models, and many different leathers (Horween Chromexcel & cordovan, suedes, calfskins, etc.), sole materials and thicknesses, welts, and so on. Further complicating matters is their custom retailer program whereby they create unique configurations for some of their retailers. So, for example, there are shoes that can only be purchased from Shoemart or Leffot or their Madison Avenue store, etc. I suppose the one generalization that fits, however, is on finish. They do not offer the highest level of finish and that which they do produce is inconsistent. It’s puzzling really why they don’t step it up in this area. Perhaps because it is a multi-generation family-owned business with a unionized workforce that sells everything they produce? Not a good reason for poor quality but perhaps enabling factors.
Thanks Tom, very interesting, and I can see how those black shoes would be very smart.
I guess one factor in the generalisation is that outside the US, we mostly see the more casual models
Simon,
BTW, the Adlen “Copley” and “Grant” lasts are particularly comfortable lasts which to my eye are more refined looking than the “Barrie” and “Van” lasts but don’t sacrifice comfort (at least for my feet).
Thanks Tom, really useful
Hi Simon, I see that your readers have already given you way too much work in the above as it is but I’m going to throw in a question as well – sorry: what is the point / function of rubbing the shoes with a deer bone? I have had a pair of Alden loafers in colour 8 (which you rarely ever see in the wild where I live but feel hopelessly unoriginal after reading this article and the comments) for years and all I needed to do – as you say is the occasional brush or rub down with a piece of cloth and keep them on shoe trees. What does the deer bone (purportedly) add to this? And why specifically deer bone? Sounds so random. Any thought / insight would be much appreciated (and justified by the title of this article;)
Hi Jan,
No worries. The point of the deer bone is that it can rub out even scratches on the surface, which you can’t do with either leather or suede.
See the example from Jesper here.
Interesting – albeit a little farfetched that you need deer bone for this because it is oily – thank you for pointing me towards this article – I will give it a try!
Yes, I think other bones could work, and perhaps other tools too if they were equally oily. But then, if this works it seems silly to try something else.
I never understood what the bone should do, either.
Bought one years ago and if I apply it like in the Jesper article the only thing I get is get scratches. My two pairs of Cordovan Derbies are now 20 years old and they still have more than enough fat in them. No need to apply any.
I put a tiny bit of Saphir Renovateur on scratches and buff them out. Works like a charm and that is all they need as regards shoe care products.
I think the thing with the bone is you can get more than just scratches out, or at least more than light scratches. It’s almost like you’re wearing down and moulding the surface. You need heat and pressure to do that, and the fat helps. But the point is not just putting fat/oil on.
Thank you, Simon. Another wonderful post and excellent examples of how to style cordovan shoes. Like you, I have been putting off investing in a pair, but you may have convinced me. Is Alden your preferred brand?
You also mentioned brushing them the day you wear them. Is this your recommended maintenance for all shoes, or should calf leather sit in trees overnight before shining?
Thanks so much!
Yes, I’d say Alden is my preferred brand, though there’s some discussion about pluses and minuses of them in the comments above.
It doesn’t make much difference whether you brush shoes the same day or the next day. You’re just more likely to remember to do it after you’ve worn them. But that’s just brushing, not using polish or cream.
Do they stretch after the break in period? I tried them on today in size 8 but had a little heel slippage. Tried half size down to 7.5 and it was quite snug fit with a little tight in the forefoot. The shopkeeper guy suggested me to get 7.5 as they will stretch. What do you think?
Best,
I think it’s unlikely they’ll stretch. I’d stick with the bigger size and try a half insole or tongue pad
In my experience they do stretch.
Maybe it’s my feet which are bit biased towards the outer sides but I had to put in some extra insole in my two twenty year old pairs perhaps eight years ago, as they have become wider and my feet began to slip noticeably.
Thanks Quention. I guess it might be your feet, but then again I haven’t worn mine for 12 years either.
Problem is, too, that most people can’t wait 12 years for the fit to be right!
Hi Simon,
When you said you wear 8.5E on EG all lasts, I presume you refer to just loafers such as 184 last or including oxford and derby lasts say 202 or 606 last? Normally I would go 0.5 size up on oxford and derby last in EG. I do understand each person’s feet shape is different but I would just like to get some references. Many thanks again in advance for your clarification.
No, I find the same size works well on everything for me.
Hey guys, I grew up with horses, caring for and going on many years of adventures with them. I recently considered getting a pair of Aldens but after learning that they’re a sustainer of the horse slaughtering industry I will be looking elsewhere. How do you feel about the morality and integrity of supporting this? I can say from experience, horses are some of the most intelligent, noble and loyal creatures to walk the earth…
I think it’s worth looking closely into the economics of it Casey. Most leathers for shoes are by-products of the meat. I’m not sure how it works out with cordovan, but it’s rare that leather like this can sustain farming of animals on its own.
Of course, there is also the much broader point that killing animals to use their meat or skin doesn’t mean you don’t respect them. Most farmers have much greater respect for animals than non-farmers. At the very least, if you think that on leather for shoes, you should be a vegetarian.
Nick Horween has said that most horse hides he gets are from Canada where horses are eaten, so the skins are by products
Thanks Hugh
Hey, I’ve been following you for a long time, and I really like getting to know about quality clothing. Recently I’ve been struggling to figure out how to buy a perfect denim shirt. What is the right fit for it? I would really appreciate some help here.
Hey,
Thanks, nice to know you’ve found it so helpful.
I think it depends what you want out of the denim shirt. If it’s something smarter, to wear with tailoring mostly, you might want it as fitted as a regular dress shirt.
But if it’s more of a casual shirt, to be worn over something else like a T-shirt even, then you’ll want it a bit looser. If in doubt, I’d tend towards this latter fit with something like denim.
Have a look at the way this Bryceland’s shirt fits for example.
You were mentioning the armoury/fukuda lasts. Have you seen the hudson loafer? https://thearmoury.com/products/hudson-tassel-loafer?variant=32131236102215
I think it is really unique and pleasing to my eye because of the short vamp.
Yes, I’ve seen that and it is a nice design. If possible I go for a higher vamp on a shoe like that, as it usually fits better – though I haven’t here with the Alden as it seems to fit that penny style better
Just to clarify: the Aldens you are wearing have a shorter than usual vamp and that style can only be purchased in the US? Thank you!
Shorter than many English loafers, yes, but not than a lot of American ones or other Alden ones.
I’ve only seen the exact style on sale in the US, yes, but that could change – it depends what other Alden stockists decide to order.
May I ask: how do the C&J Cavendish and the Belgravia and their vamps compare to the Alden? Are they much higher?
A little higher, yes
Would you agree with f.e. George Wang (https://dieworkwear.com/2018/09/06/the-sophisticated-black-tassel/) that black loafers work better with jeans than brown ones? BTW: I totally get your preference of color 8 over black.
Personally, no, I think brown works better – though much more brown suede than leather.
That said, there is certainly a look with black loafers, which can be too easily dismissed if we just think of that as formal.
That´s what I thought too. For me dark brown (chocolate) suede remains probably most versatile in combination with denim/chinos, aside from the equally versatile color 8.
Thanks!
Hi Simon,
Apologies if I might be slightly off-topic, but I couldn’t find anywhere more relevant to ask you this question.
I really enjoy the profile of your low-vamp Alden penny loafer, cordovan or not.
Alden is really expensive in my country, whereas to my surprise Allen Edmonds is not. AE has a low-vamp, penny loafer very similar to Alden’s but half the price.
How would you compare those two brands in regards to quality, and value ?
Thanks
P.A.
No worries at all – all comments are always welcome, on any vaguely related post. I know readers appreciate them too.
It’s a little hard to say on the value – I think they’re both decent value for what you pay in the US, though Allen Edmonds isn’t what it was. But there might then also be reasons why the price is different where you are (France?) which affects the value point.
Alden is certainly better, from what I’ve seen, but it’s hard to put a number on how much.
Thank you for your reply.
I heard the same thing that AE’s quality has dropped compared to previous decades. I bought second hand a pair of long wing bluchers that is probably older than me, the leather has developped a wonderful patina and is still going strong (I’m actually wearing them today).
However, as someone who would like to add a versatile loafer to my shoes collection, and who quite likes the Ivy style, it is difficult to find in France such a loafer shape. Loafers in France are usually either elongated in the Italian style, or chunky (“boxy” ?) like Weston.
Currently at 260€, I feel like I can’t really beat AE’s quality at this price point.
Another item on the shopping list !
P.A.
What is your take on Crockett and Jones Bradford (Cordovan). Just got a pair though I am yet to try it on
I haven’t tried them in person, so it’s hard to say. But they look like a fairly smart pair of derbys, but one which will be pretty robust in that make and in the cordovan. Was there something specific you were concerned about?
Dear Simon! I was a bit disapointed by the colour of the “burgundy” Aldens that I received recently. There is no black/purple look that I see from your pair. My pair looks more like a brown with a reddish undertone. Does the colour 8 vary that much from pair to pair? Or did I choose the wrong colour? Thank you!
Hmm. Hard to tell from the image, but yes I would have thought there would be more black/purple in there. It does vary, and it will darken as you wear them too.
Would you advise to work with black cream to darken it? Can you apply normal cream (for calf leather)? Thank you!
Yes, normal cream is fine. Just use it very sparingly, as cordovan doesn’t really need it much. There’s so much oil in there already, and you risk getting white lines in the creases.
But I wouldn’t use black cream or polish yet. Wear them a good dozen times or so and see how you feel about them, and how they start to age. Then begin with just a little bit of black polish, perhaps around the toe or heel.
Hi Simon –
Have you noticed your shell cordovan loafers becoming any more comfortable after wearing them for some time ? I see you’ve mentioned they weren’t perfectly comfortable from the beginning.
I purchased a pair of Alden shell loafers that are just a tiny bit tight. Wanted to see what I should expect with more wearings.
Not really to be honest Mike. Perhaps a very small amount, but any actual fit issues haven’t changed
aldenshoe.com
Hey Simon,
Have you got them stretched by cobbler? How much did they stretch out if you have?
I haven’t, no sorry.
Hi Simon,
How would you compare no 8 to John Lobb’s museum plum color? (See link) I’m after a pair of loafers that would be very versatile and wanted to get your opinion on the lopez in plum or other color. Would they go to the informality of jeans or would they be too smart?
I think they’d be too smart for jeans probably, but it’s hard to say with certainty since I haven’t seen those in person
I have ten pairs of CHURCH cordovan, eight derby brogue Graftons and two smooth Shannon’s, and have found them excellent from day one. Striking colour similar to the number 8 that you described, extremely comfortable, and surprisingly light feel on the foot for a heavy shoe. People ALWAYS ask me about them and compliment their appearance. CHURCH do a first class resole service
Hey Simon,
I have a bit of a conundrum. Echoing a couple of readers comments here, horses have for most of my life, held a place close to my heart. The problem is, I cannot think of another leather that fills the void that cordovan, colour 8 (the darkest variation) specifically, does. Dark brown suede is versatile and I love it, but not quite the same edge to it. Burgundy calf doesn’t quite cut it either. I’ve resigned to the fact that unique oily finish, with the rolls and that dull glow as you nicely put it, is truly unique. It has an almost grungey, otherworldly appearance to it, and yet still appears smart. I find it hard to describe as you can tell.
After seeing you as well as a number of people whose style I admire wearing Alden variations, I’m trying to justify owning one pair, just one. Particularly, the Alden 986 loafer. I know you mentioned in this post, you prefer the slimmer lasts. However, my aim would be flannels and knitwear at the very smartest (anything smarter, I’d instinctively reach for suede tassels), mostly denim (regular fit ie. NW1) and knitwear though. They’d also be handy in warmer weather, with the PS overshirt in dark brown, white tee and navy BHL chinos for example (you can clearly see me trying to justify them). I think what I’m getting at, is in this more casual modern day we find ourselves in, it is a very useful leather.
Would love to know your thoughts
Ck
It doesn’t sound like you need much help from me Chris. You recognise the beauty and usefulness of the leather, it’s just an ethical question for you.
Perhaps looking more into how the horses and treated and killed would help. Sometimes, the people that do so – like many farmers I’ve met – have more respect for the animals than anyone else.
Thanks Simon, that is a very important point you make and something I’ll need to research, while my mind is still conflicted, that would be the starting point.
My best,
Ck
Hi Simon – I am deciding between Black or Burgendy (not colour 8) cordovan loafers. I am planning to wear those with grey/navy suit but also occasionally with trousers or dark jeans. I am inclined to pick black having looked at your black cordovan – which one would you pick if you were me? Thank you.
Black would be best for the suits, and would work with some more casual outfits, but probably not all. Burgundy I would worry about how smart it would look with some of the suits.
Hi Simon, I just bought a pair of Alden Plain Toe Blucher in Color 8 when in New York.
The colour is, I think a brown/burgundy. I’m a little particular about a belt being similar i colour to the shoe colour. Any thoughts?
I don’t think this was covered in this thread, and apologies if it was! No doubt you’ve covered this somewhere else….
I’m wearing with Black or Blue Blackhorse Lane E8.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Yours aye
Neil
I don’t think you should try and match too closely Neil – see post here
Hi Simon,
Would you be kind to tell your usual shoe size in UK and what size did you get for the Barrie last in US size please?
I find it difficult to decide between going a full size of half from the regular UK size.
Thank you!
I’m normally an 8.5 in UK shoes, and I went for a 9.5 in the Barrie
Hi simon, I’m thinking of getting my first pair of alden cordovan loafers and am deciding between having them in the van last (penny loafer) or the Aberdeen last (tassel loafer). I belief you own shoes in both models. Would like to hear which last you find more comfortable. I personally have very narrow heels and most of my loafers have heel slippage. Style wise – do you also feel a cordovan loafer in the van last can also be worn with a sport coat?
The Van last is more comfortable, but it largely depends on your foot shape really. That last is only more comfortable on most people because it is larger and so more forgiving. But then that might also mean your heel slips more.
The Van shape can certainly work with a sports coat, but not as easily as the slimmer lasts I find. It is chunkier
Hi Simon, quick question, are your full strap loafers on the Aberdeen the same size as your jumper boots on the Barrie last? Or did you size down 1/2 on the barrie? I know a lot of people size down half but 99% of the time, sizing down causes a length issue for my toes.
I actually went up a half size on the jumper boots, but that was because I knew I’d wear them with really thick socks in winter.
In general I’d take the same size in those shoes/boots
Thanks Simon! I ask because I have a lovely pair of Alden boots on the Grant last, perfect fit. There’s a couple of nice ones on the Barrie I’m eyeing. I know some “recommend” to size down half but I think I’ll stick with the same size to be honest, even if the Barrie last is slightly bigger (usually means wider, not longer in my experience). Hate cramped toes. Much appreciated.
No problem
I just went with a cordovan 8 Alden full strap penny loafer as my first loafer. Is this ill advised for a first loafer???♀️
I’m not sure if black was the way to go but there was something that kept pulling me to the cordovan 8.
Fantastic read by the way Simon, thanks for this.
That is a great loafer and a versatile colour. But whether it was the best choice depends a lot on what you else you wear?
Hi Simon,
Which tongue pads have you found to be effective? Heel pads I have found worthless so I am keen to try rogue pad to solve a heel sleep problem. Thank you.
I haven’t found any to be perfect to be honest, but these from Skolyx are probably the best, particularly if you cut them down (they are quite big) if needed
Hi,Simon
Would you mind telling if you went true to size on the Alden snuff snuede loafers on Van last and what width are they , D or E?
Thank you!
Yes, true to size, and a D fitting
Hi Simon, I wear a 7.5 on my C&J Cavendish tassel loafers and am thinking of getting the Alden 684 pennyloafer in color 8 you have. My C&Js are already quite snug fit and are all made of calf skin. I’m unsure if I should size up have a size or go with a 7.5. The problem is I have no chance to try on Aldens in a shop where I live. Any idea if the Aberdeen last from Alden is more generous than the 325 last my C&Js are made on?
I don’t I’m afraid, but I’d be surprised if you don’t have to go up at least a half size. I always have to in US sizes
Hi,Simon
Do you mind telling if you have same size on Alden shoes on Barrie and Van last and are they the same width?
Thank you!
I have the same on both, yes.
Thank you!
As for colour choice and material of the Alden loafer, what do you recommend? Dark brown ,snuff suede or cordovan? I do have dark raw indigo jeans,olive and khaki chinos and real mccoys beige chinos and later would add ecru jeans.
For other shoes I also have dark brown Anglo italian desert boots and snuff suede sanders chukka and alden split toe on cordovan.
Thank you and much appreciate it!
I think you could get either snuff suede or cordovan in that case. Personally I’d go for the cordovan, but both would be great
Hey Simon! Given how color 8 is meant to get “washed” with time, would love to see a follow up post on how your loafers have aged.
They haven’t really changed from this colour to be honest – what do you mean by ‘washed’ exactly?
Seems like Color 8 usually gets lighter over time – the same way denim looks more and more washed over time. Hopefully this clarifies the question!
Really? I haven’t found that much to be honest. But perhaps because I carry on using cream now and again
hi simon, been looking to purchase a casual shoe like this from paraboot (https://www.paraboot.com/en/men/boat-shoes/barthmarine-marron-america) and will be my first foray into this colour. All my other pairs are dark brown suede or traditional calf (black/brown). I’m wondering would something like that be useful with wearing with shorts and say black/navy polos? also since the colour is quite close to cordovan 8, can the shoe be used in situations where cordovan would have been used?
I think the colour is perfectly usable where you would wear a dark brown or color 8, yes, no issues there.
However, I would think carefully about the style. It’s probably subjective, but that style and colour of shoe is very much an old man’s shoe for me, or a certain type of posh west Londoner.
I prefer them in suede, but then that’s probably subjective too.
Hi Simon,
do you think the full strap in calf is easier to wear in and adapts faster? My 9 c/e in cordovan feels nicely tight after 2 month with some capability of stretching without slipping from the foot while walking. The 9.5 feels very comfy from the start. As there is no chance to try on any of these shoes in calf, I thought I ask here… Thanks in advance! Have a great day
It will adapt a little bit faster, yes. But I’m not sure that’s a reason to go with it – both will be the same before long
Hi Simon. Interested in how you wear the black cordovan tassel loafers. Would you wear these with a black belt (or just stick to going beltless)? How do you find they look against more formal, refined trousers (e.g. worsteds) compared with denim, cord or chinos (where I imagine the more comfortable home for cordovan, but not necessarily black shoes)? Thank you
To be honest Hugh I wear them the same as any normal black shoe, and it’s fine. The difference for calf is much smaller when it’s black
Hi Simon
When looking at potential alternatives to No.8 that are UK based, do you have a view on EG’s nightshade and burgundy options? They obviously look different, but wondering whether you’d have them in the same category as not being obviously better than brown or black.
Thanks
Michael
I wouldn’t personally Michael. One of the reasons I find Color 8 so unique is that I haven’t found any other red or green hued colour of loafer that is anywhere near as classic or versatile
Many thanks as ever, seems a shame there’s not something in that niche a bit closer to home when you think about the additional resource that would have to go into shipping them over! Ah well
True. If it’s any consolation, Americans have a smaller shoe industry and less to choose from generally than we do. Certainly compared to Europe as a whole
Certainly true! Very limited grounds for complaint generally, and even then it’s better to focus on all of the options that are readily available vs. what’s not.
Simon Crompton
PS.Thanks for the lovely article.
I have been looking to buy Cordovan 8 Alden Full Strap.I have tried Steffan.
Couldn’t find anywhere in Uk.
Looking for suggestions and guidance.
Thanks
Hi Ahsan,
I bought my full-strap loafers in the Madison Avenue store in New York, and as far as I know there isn’t a stockist of that style in the UK. Unfortunately Alden is also quite restrictive about international shipments and you can’t order from the US to deliver to the UK.
The regular penny is widely stocked, at Trunk and Clutch for example. Drake’s also has different permutations. Gabucci in Sweden has the tassel loafer, which is my second-favourite Alden loafer.
I hope that’s hepful
Thanks for the reply and advice.Its so nice of you.
Appreciate the effort and your service for fashion aficionados.
Bundle of Thanks again.
Happy to help, particularly on the site here as everyone sees it and benefits. It’s a community thing
Hi Simon,
how would you compare your EG (pictured above), the classic Alden tassel loafer on the Aberdeen last and the full strap in terms of the vamp? It looks longer on both tassel. As I’m looking for a low vamp tassel loafer, it’d be lovely to hear your thoughts. Kind of difficult to find a store and compare by myself in my area.
Agree on the color and the versatility in this post. Great read and nice pictures as always…
Cheers
The vamp on the EG is higher than the other two – not a lot, but enough to affect the style. And very marginally higher on the Alden tassel than the full strap too.
If you want a low-vamp tassel, I’d look to the Alden one first.
Hello Simon. I was looking at these pair of boots from Alden https://www.brogueshop.com/collections/shell-cordovan-1/products/alden-x-brogue-ruby-hill-boot-1 to wear with my https://thearmoury.com/products/the-armoury-by-nigel-cabourn-5-pocket-denim-jeans?variant=17728986677319 and my https://therealmccoys.com/collections/bottoms/products/001xx-washed Jeans. It’s made on the 379X Military Last. I do like the fact that it’s all eyelets and I like that in my boots. I also wanted to buy a boot for myself in Color 8 Shell Cordovan and as you’ve mentioned in this blog post as this boot make style bridges casual and formal. Please do let me know what are your thoughts on the last and style of this particular boot and how I intend to style it with the pair of jeans I own mentioned here.
It would be hard to go wrong with a work boot with jeans Amit. I think those will look great
Just re-read this, I do have to get myself a pair of these! Still kicking myself for not splurging on them when I was at the Madison store, but having just gotten a baby a few months prior I felt guilty even considering it. Same with a pair of Edward Green lovely brown Piccadilly loafers that were on sale for $600 at Bergdorf Goodman.
You mention here, Simon, that you can remove certain scratches by brushing and buffing. How does on go about this exactly? And does it work with calf too, or only cordovan? Thanks!
Brushing will always help with calf too – see video on that kind of care here
But it’s much more possible with cordovan. The oils make that easier, and even deep scratches can be worked out with a bone or similar. Kirby has a good video on that here
Thanks!
Hello Simon:
I’ve been retired for a few years. and I’m now interested in buying a pair of casual/dress boots. (Worn w/ nice jeans/slacks/sports jacket.) Usage frequency: As a retiree; I don’t really get out too often. “All things being equal/subjective;” would I look nicer in Shell Cordovan; or a “regular” leather dress boot? (Excluding the price difference/personal preference.) Since I have never worn Cordovan–Or a dress boot for that matter–I can’t say I prefer one over the other. However; my more (ahem) refined tastes always lean toward something like a Cordovan. Not trying to be a snob! 🙂
I think you might find cordovan more satisfying Brian, and easier to wear with jeans and slacks too
Thank you Simon. Much appreciated. Given your helpful thoughts; I’ll go w/ the Cordovan.
Take care.
Brian
Hi Simon,
I was wondering whether cordovan or suede split toe chukka boots is better when it comes to versatility when it comes to pairing it with clothing that is less formal than worsted suits, ease when it comes to maintenance and how well it keeps up against snow and heavy rain?
I’d say suede is probably more versatile for style, but cordovan would be a little better in snow and rain
What is the least formal outfit someone can wear with a pair of cordovan split toe chukka boots?
You could wear most things, the versatility point was more about colours and materials things might look best with
What materials and colours work with suede that don’t work with cordovan?
Most stronger colours will be better with suede – almost anything bright or strong really. Then some others depending on shades
Hi Simon,
How do you get your Alden’s resoled? Do you send them back to Alden’s factory in the US or do you use a local service?
I’ve used Alden, but I’d also recommend Yorkshire Sole – I saw a friend’s repair their on Aldens and it was very good. They do a lot of boots, Red Wings etc
Hi Simon,
Curious how your Alden full straps fit now? I just received my pair and I’m not too sure how I feel about them.
I have two Alden Barrie cordovans – one 6.5EE, and another in 7E. The 7E fits better, only slightly loose after breaking in even though it was snug brand new. Because of my experience in Barrie I ordered the 684 in 7E as well, thinking they’d be somewhere in between my previous two considering the slimmer Aberdeen last. Unfortunately it’s completely not what I expected in terms of fit. It’s a bit loose for my liking, worsened with some heel slip. It’s manageable depending on what socks I have on but thin or sockless is out of the question. To make things more interesting I also recently got a size 7UK C&J suede Cavendish that actually fits comfortably.
Maybe stick to wearing the Alden with slightly thick socks and hope the toebox moulds to my feet? Also the Cavendish is my first pair of Crocketts and I’m now inclined for more.
Regards,
Alvin
Hi Alvin,
Mine are still a good fit, though I’m tempted to go a half size up sometime merely because I like the extra room in fit more generally, as discussed in the piece about Anatomica.
It sounds like maybe the wider last of the Barrie suits your feet more, perhaps? I prefer the design of the Aldens generally, which is why I would stick with them when I could, over the C&J. But if you like the latter just as much, maybe that works better for you.
Hi Simon.
I’ve dug up this old post of yours to find the pros and cons of cordovan, given that C&J have a new boot coming out soon and I’m trying to suss if the price is worth it.
https://www.crockettandjones.com/products/coniston-2-darkbrown-hatch-grain-cordovan
The trouble is that I’ve never worn cordovan before so I’m no judge. Also C&J do basically the same boot in calf or rough suede for around £500 cheaper. Can a cordovan upper really add £500 to a boot and be worth it? I’d love a new highly versatile boot at around this formality that could last over a decade. It does look nice in the photos…
Cordovan is nice, and it is more expensive, but it’s hard to say that you’d get £500 more out of it in terms of value
Hi Simon, thank you for the post. I have been thinking of getting a pair of cordovan shoes to wear with semi-formal attire. How would you compare Alden & Edward Green’s Greenwich in Cordovan burgundy?
Many thanks,
Alex
To be honest I’ve generally preferred the Alden cordovan. The only thing I’d say is that the make of the ALden is not at the same level so they will be a little more casual, but only a little
Hey Simon,
Do you think there is much difference in the Belgravia between cordovan and calf when in black? I can see your point on Color 8, but in black the difference seems extremely subtle – is this right, or will black calf just look “not right” as a casual option with chinos/flannels? Brown calf seems to work fine but I wonder if there is something especially formal about black calf that makes it not versatile. Advice appreciated.
No I think you’re right Paul, there is only a very small difference there and it will look fine
Hi Simon, somewhat related to Paul’s question as well as your more recent post on wearing loafers with jeans, I’ve recently become interested in trying black tassel loafers with jeans (dark, selvedge denim). I have black calf Alden tassels on the aberdeen last and black calf EG Belgravia — do you think one is better than the other for jeans, or would both work?
P.S. I live in Atlanta but regularly travel to NY for work and have been trying to plan a work trip for next week to coincide with the NY pop-up; sadly I don’t think it will work out but will hopefully get an opportunity next time in NY or London. Next time you’re in NY it might be worth the 2 hour flight to Atlanta to visit Sid Mashburn’s flagship store here.
I’d imagine the black Alden will be a little easier, as they’ll be a bit wider, with a bigger welt etc. A touch more casual basically. Try to keep the rest a little smart too – eg a white oxford and navy or mid-grey crewneck.
Yes I’d love to get down to Atlanta. Sid and I have talked for a while about doing something. Hopefully next time
Thanks, Simon. Do you have any recommendations for successfully pairing brown pants with black shoes? And what color socks would you wear? Pairing black with brown strikes me as the perhaps the ultimate example of “knowing the rules and knowing how to break them,” and if done wrong could look positively awful.
Looking forward to welcoming you to Atlanta one day. Safe travels to NY.
Thanks Michael.
Have you seen this article on shoes with brown trousers?
Hi Simon,
Any thoughts on the Alden Blutcher Plain Toe cordovan shoes?
Thank you!
It’s a nice shoe, but perhaps a little clompy for my style – I prefer a split-toe myself
Hi Simon is that the rubato jeans your wearing?
No, it’s Blackhorse Lane
Hi simon, a few questions about cordovan shoes:
1) Can I say cordovan shoes can be worn with both black and brown belts alike in most outfits? E.g. blue shirt, khaki chinos, cordovan loafers
2) Does cordovan get darker over time? I went to my local shops selling alden loafers and the cordovan loafers look more purple/significantly less dark than any of the cordovan shoes in your pictures above
3) Does cordovan get softer/more comfortable with wear/time as in most shoes (suede/calf)?
If we’re talking about just cordovan in Color 8 colour, then:
1) To an extent, though I think the brown has to be pretty dark
2) It’s meant to get a little lighter I think, but you can darken it too with the cream/polish you use. The leathers do vary between pairs
3) It does soften up a bit, but not a huge amount. It won’t feel dramatically different from what you feel when you try them on
Hi Simon, did you have to size up or down for the Alden Norwegian Blucher?
Many thanks,
Jack
No, it was pretty true to size
Hi Simon, do you think Alden’s moc toe in Barrie last would be too casual and wide for mid-grey flannel trousers with 18.5cm leg openings?
Many thanks,
Jack
Probably, yes, though leg openings depend on your proportions and shoe size of course
I see. If my shoe size is UK 8.5 and most of my trousers’ leg openings are 18.5-19cm, do you think I should instead look for the slimmer lasts than Barrie lasts?
I think last shape should really by driven by your foot and what style you want. But yes, those are pretty slim legs so ideally a slimmer last might work better
I have relatively slim legs compared to my feet’ width. They are wide and flat, so theoretically, I would need pretty wide lasts to be comfortable. However, I always wear shoes which pinch my toes as my outfit would look proportionally odd if I wore anything that fits my feet well; it would look like I am wearing chunky trainers. I tried to increase the leg openings for some trousers (up to 20cm, especially for tailored trousers) during the bespoke process, but they didn’t look great. If it were you, what do you think you would have done?
I’d wear a wider trouser probably, and lean into that style
Okay, thanks, Simon.
Hi Simon !
Two weeks ago I bought the same cordovan boots as you did at Gabucci store.
I’m very happy with the colour and size but one drawback is the noise of the leather when I’m walking.
Did you had the same problem ?
Is the squeaking noise will decrease in few weeks ?
Do you have any tips to reduce that sound ?
Thanks !
Nicolas
I’ve only noticed a very slight squeaking, but I have to say it hasn’t decreased over time I’m afraid. Not sure what could fix it either other than having the sole off and seeing if it’s the shank
Cordovan lovers delight in that squeak!
Hi Simon,
I was wondering if black cordovan loafers are the shoe equivalent to the Oxford cloth button down shirt. Thank you in advance.
Could you be more specific Kyle? In terms of smartness, versatility, style?
I would say in terms of versatility. Apologies for forgetting to make that clear.
No worries. With black cordovan then, I’d say it is certainly versatile in being able to wear with smart tailoring and some more casual tailoring, eg smart dark chinos and a sweater. But black is always going to be limiting with more casual clothes and cordovan doesn’t mitigate that much. So not really an Oxford equivalent in that sense
Hi Simon, may I ask what size and width you took in the Barrie last, and what belt colour you usually wear with the #8? Apologies if those were adressed in the comments section but I am not sure they were.
Hi Gab,
9E in the Barrie. As to belt, I wear a dark-brown leather most of the time, or even a black if it’s a smarter shoe/look.
Thank you. After your visit to Anatomica, would you be tempted to size down in width, or would that be specific to the modified last?
Specific to the modified last, definitely
Simon,
I’m debating getting the same Crockett & Jones Cordovan Harvards that you have. However given the price I would forego what I was initially gravitating toward: both black box calf Penny loafers and museum brown tassel loafers. Do you think those C&J Harvards or perhaps even some Alden LHS’s could adequately fill both roles (of course in Color 8) or at least the role of black pennys? Or should I worry about getting Cordovan Loafers later?
Thanks,
Alex
If any material could, certainly C8 cordovan could. I think it’s more a question of whether you feel you do really need both colours for different looks you like. If you do, I wouldn’t compromise now and regret it in a year when you could then afford a second pair
Hi simon are you saying that c8 is thr most versatile color given it can do both brown and black looks?
In one way, yes it is. However, just because a shoe works with lots of looks, it doesn’t mean you’re not losing something, and it is a little unusual as a colour so I can imagine not everyone will like it
Hello Simon, was hoping for your guidance on a pair of cordovan chukka boots.
You’ve written a few times about the versatility of brown suede chukka boots. All of my shoes are brown suede (no chukka boots, though), so I was thinking of the Alden Jumper cordovan boots you have here. Would they pair with jeans, flannels and workwear chinos? And would they do so just as well as brown suede? I suspect not, but I am trying to ascertain whether I would be loosing alot by choosing cordovan rather than suede, or whether it’s best to stick with suede for this essential item.
Thank you for your help!
Suede will definitely be more versatile. Cordovan would be good, but the jumper style at least wouldn’t be the best with flannels, more casual and good with the others
Thanks Simon. Sounds like it would be best to stick to suede, and add cordovan in future years when my shoe collection is more developed.
Cheers
That certainly sounds sensible, yes
Hi simon i know you own black cordovan shoes. Given they are similar to black calf in coloir. Is there any reason why one should buy rhe cordovan one?
Only really for weather resistance – and on the flip side, you get that different shine with calf
Hello Simon, I’ve just taken the plunge and bought a pair of Alden Longwing Bluchers in Colour 8 and they’re every bit as lovely as you and others have led me to expect. One question I have – and this is admittedly thinking ahead somewhat – is where can i go in the UK to get them resoled should they wear out? many thanks and keep up the excellent work with the blog
Simon, if you had to choose between the Alden colour 8 full strap penny loafers and the colour 8 tassel loafer, which would you pick? I’m ambivalent and would to hear your thoughts. Thank you.
The full strap I think. I find it more versatile and it’s a style I feel is more likely to last longer (I do now and again wonder whether tassels will become a bit fashiony, though I haven’t felt like that yet…)
Hey Simon, thank you very much for going deeper into this topic. I wasn’t much aware of these differences in material. As I am currently looking for a new pair of black oxfords to wear to work with a suit I was wondering, what’s your take on that? I really like the longevity of cordovan for shoes I will wear a lot. Thanks!
I think black cordovan can wear well like that. They’ll look normal leather to most people, but will have that toughness
Hi Simon, I usually wear size UK8.5 E for most loafers. So I bought Alden’s Aberdeen last tassel loafers in US 9D as their official size chart showed that it is equivalent to my UK size. But but they feel so uncomfortable around my toes. Could I ask how you chose your size for the Aberdeen lasts? It’s pretty confusing as the size guides on the internet are sometimes inconsistent.
Also, when I measure my feet with the Brannock device, they are UK10 which was very odd as this is nowhere near my usual size. Obviously I feel very comfortable on my toes if I wear that size but my heels slip as if I’m wearing flip flops. Would you suggest not relying too much on the measurements like you advise with tailoring?
Many thanks,
Jack
I wouldn’t say it’s that extreme, but it will depend a lot on the last shapes as well. The Aberdeen is quite a slim last in the front, and a hard one to fit generally as it has that low vamp. You may well have to take a full size up in that, as opposed to a half size in other US loafers. And even then, the shape might just not work that well for you.
I see, thanks, Simon. Maybe I should send them for a stretch hoping it would help. Could I ask why the low vamp would make the fit difficult?
It depends on your foot, but a low vamp means there is less shoe to hold your fit in place
Quick question. Just got a pair of EG black cordovans. Is it worth having the toe / heel tap or rubber put on the bottom? Or does that diminish the look?
A toe tap doesn’t at all, a rubber sole does a little, but how smart are you intending them to be? Eg will you wear with a dark suit and tie?
Day to day is suit, and at times a tie.
I’d stick with leather soles then if you can
Hello Simon,
Thanks for the great work you do. I’m trying to make up my mind about getting cordovan shoes for the first time. I’m specifically looking at getting a pair of unlined Alden Dover shoes in color 8. Seems to me that a combination of the Barrie last and the shoes being unlined will make for a more comfortable experience (I live and work in warmer climes). However, I’d like to know if there are any downsides of unlined cordovan shoes. Thanks!
Not really Lekan. Cordovan is so strong that longevity won’t be an issue. And there might be a touch more wrinkling, but that’s what you embrace with cordovan anyway. If I could have all of my cordovan unlined I would!
Dear Simon,
could you say something whether the Alden No 8 Loafer is comparable to the Ludwig Reiter „College Loafer“ both in quality and the colouring (Reiter has only one shell-cordovan)?
Second question: From your various post, it be more of autumn loafer than, for example, the unlined Belgravia you have, which be the summer option, right?
Many thanks!
I haven’t worn the college loafer, but I’d say it would probably be a little below Alden in quality, but that’s not based on much.
I’m afraid I also can’t say much about the cordovan, only seeing it online. But I assume it would be similar to other non-Alden cordovan in the Col.8 shade.
That would make a good autumn loafer, yes, though I would also be happy to wear the unlined Belgravia most of the year too
Honestly I think Ludwig Reiter is on par with Alden in terms of quality and make. I have seen them next to each other and wearing Ludwig Reiter in my mind they’re on the same level as Alden if not a little better. When I had a look at the Aldens they seemed to be pretty rough in make, stitching etc. not always perfect. On the other hand Ludwig Reiters quality in make is more comparable to C&J. Carmina is a whole nother story regarding that, they’re very well made at the price point (even tho that does not always fit to the style of shoe).
I cannot comment on prices in the UK, but Ludwig Reiter is even expensive here in germany, and I can imagine they’re even pricier in the UK. That being said, Alden is also very expensive over here, which in my opinion cannot be justified by the quality, but only by the style. But roughly the same goes for Ludwig Reiter, they’re also a bit too expensive for what one gets if you ask me. I hope that helps!
P.S. – a third question even:
given the overall qualities of cordovan – what do you think of the (therefore not inexpensive) Ludwig Meier Boatshoe with cordovan?
That could be nice, and cordovan could wear in nicely. Having not worn it or seen it in person it’s hard to say more though
Hi Simon,
I can absolutely understand the appeal of color 8. Since Alden is relatively hard to get here in continental Europe and even harder to try on, I was wondering whether you think the more purple/reddish Oxblood from other manufacturers treated with black cream might have a similar effect? (like TLB’s MTO ) The goal is to have a shoes as versatile as the Aldens in 8. But I fear these other Oxbloods might become brighter over time and thus be even less versatile.
Many thanks!
To be honest I don’t know, I’d want to see someone else do it before I considered it, and even then I might not given how expensive they are
Thank you, Simon.
I managed to get a pair of Alden in col. 8 and really like them. I have two more quick questions, if I may:
1) You mentioned that you use regular cream on them. What colour is the cream?
(I like the dark tone and would like to keep it as long as possible. And you seem to have done that – unlike other Alden customers reported here and elsewhere.)
2) Alden recommends their wax over cream, any thoughts on that?
Many thanks.
1) Just neutral. But be sparing with it, you don’t want to get it into folds and wrinkles
2) Both are fine, I find it’s good to use a little cream now and again, but they overlap in terms of their benefits
Hi Simon, would you recommend the Alden NST color 8 as a sensible choice for both formal and casual outfits?
The split-toe would be a little more casual, as would the Alden make and welt, so I wouldn’t say it would be that good with a lot of formal outfits myself. I wouldn’t wear it with suits etc
Thanks Simon! If I may ask, is that the Alden NST 2210 with commando sole you’re wearing and is it comfortable enough to be a regular use casual shoe?
Hey,
No actually those are from Ascot Shoes, made by Vass. Not that successful a commission unfortunately and I now have some Alden NSTs that replaced them (double leather sole)
Simon, on that earlier Ascot Shoes review, maybe a new review of shoes entirely made by and directly ordered from Vass in Budapest would be fairer, as it would disentangle what could have resulted from the addition of an intermediary from a process otherwise 100% controlled by the maker? The fact that Vass in the only one left making entirely handmade shoes in the RTW market would warrant that alone.
Thank you Edouard, yes at some point that would be good to do.
A few of the top-end makers are doing entirely handmade RTW shoes now aren’t they? Gaziano, Stefano Bemer, maybe others. Of course different look and price level
Hi simon i currently have a dark brown suede carmina loafer and b&l, loafer, dark brown paraboot boatshoe (but the upper is like a penny sttap loafer with a fully rubber bottom) and a crockett black calf loafer. Im deciding beteen adding a black suede loafer, something like a b&l or an alden color 8 loafer in van last. I realise im wearing a little more black in a casual way (tee shirt, casual cotton jackets, pants) and was thinking the black suede would be useful as the black calf is too smart. At the same time i was wondering if the alden color 8 can also work in that regard. Wanted to get your thoughts which you would get first?
I think the color 8 would be good there, yes. Black suede is great but a little limiting to particular looks
Hi Simon,
Would you wear or think this pair of Alden shoes could go with a mid blue denim and a navy peacoat ?
https://www.fransboonestore.com/products/alden-nst-derosa-blucher-in-8
Yes, they certainly would. It would be a less smart look, but nice
Hey Simon,
I’ve been coveting a pair of alden loafers, either full-straps, pennies or LHS for as long as I can remember. Do you know of anywhere that goes up to UK size 11 or 11.5 in the UK? Seems to be like catching lightning in a bottle
I don’t, sorry
My I ask which size and width do you wear in the Aberdeen last?
The ones pictured are a 9D, but I have since sized up to a 9.5D. It’s not a great last for me – too slim and tight across the joints. The bigger size is better there but looser in the heel
Thank you Simon! I tried them in 9 E. the length is good for me (true to size) but the width gives to much room. In EU there is a Problem of getting D as width, so I think about Carmina Uetam or C&J Harvard as an alternative. Do you have any thoughts on that?
They’re both nice shoes, but the style would be a bit different
Thanks Simon! To be honest, I just want to reduce the size of my wardrobe and only have a pair of loafer, that can be combined with as much as possible. From ivy to navy suit with knitted tie (actually I am a bit interested in wearing kind of ivy) For more formal occasions there will be one black C&J oxfords…
I see. The Harvard could do that in an Ivy kind of way, though to be honest I find that full-strap the most versatile. I just wish it fit my foot better
Thank you for another help! Good to hear that you also struggle sometimes with the fitting ;-))
Absolutely!