This is the first in a series of three videos in which I look at how a jacket should fit.
In this first one, we cover the basics around the jacket - front, back and side. It's a useful summary of the main points, and applies as much to a high-street ready-made suit as to a bespoke one.
In all three, Charlie from Henry Poole kindly agreed to be our guinea pig, allowing me to point our various aspects of fit on his suit. Helpfully, his suit is also in SpringRam cloth from Harrison's, who sponsored this mini-series.
All the other tailoring in the background of the video is also by Henry Poole, using Harrison's cloth.
In summary in the video, we cover:
- The shoulders, which should end around the point of your shoulder bone. They can be bigger or smaller, depending on style, as long as that doesn't mean the end is falling away, or the sleeve pulling
- The front should be clean on both sides, not one side higher or lower than the other, which would cause one side to buckle
- The armhole should be high, as it allows your arms to move more easily, but not so high that you push down on the cloth and causing it to fold
- There should be no pulling at the waist, most clearly seen by wrinkles running outwards from the waist button
- The collar should sit cleanly on the back of the neck: not sitting away from the shirt, but also not too right, which can cause a wrinkle below the collar as the neck pushes down on it
- The sleeve pitch should be angled correctly, so there are no wrinkles, and the sleeve is cleaner if move your arm forward or back
- Sleeve length is a matter of preference, but you would usually show a quarter to a half an inch of shirt cuff
- The vents should be closed, not showing any gap. (And please, if there are basting stitches, take them out. And tell other people!)
- The back should be relatively clean, though there should usually be a little excess below the armhole, otherwise you won’t be able to raise your arms. (This will be covered in an upcoming video in the series, looking at fit and comfort.)
- And lastly length - partly a matter of style, and we’ll also look at this in more detail in an upcoming video - but covering the seat (the bottom) is a good place to start
Other practical videos we've produced are (also all on the YouTube channel):
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Yes, sorry it seems to be working for some and not for others. Try now
Love this.
Your videos just keep getting better and better .
Just afew points on this video …..
Some of the points you mention would be better demonstrated by how they actually look when wrong or slightly wrong .
Certainly things like sleeve length, sleeve pitch and shoulders ….. something which I find is very difficult to judge yourself and often requires an informed observer to look out for .
My general rule of thumb is a clean look from the back.
Also, any RTW brands you know of that do high arm hole ?
Thanks, interesting idea. Obviously require a few different looks/models to show that – might be easier with photography. But great suggestion.
I don’t know any that do a high armhole, no, and there’s a couple of good reasons. One, it requires more handwork and so is just not something most RTW makers could do. And second, it’s not just about being high or low, but being as high as it can be on your body. So if a brand does a higher armhole, it would immediately be too high for a whole group of customers.
In which case is it , a high armhole, possible through MTM or only through bespoke ?
Usually it won’t make much difference going to MTM rather than RTW, but it does vary. MTM is a big category, and some includes extra functional hand work. That’s rare though.
I think ring jacket does a high armhole in their ready to wear- the armoury products certainly do
Simon, thanks for the great video.
Perhaps a piece on the armhole alone is in order? I think it would be incredibly helpful to show this as one of the most beneficial aspects of going bespoke and better MTM services!
Good call, thanks Jay
Agree that seeing examples of bad fit would be most helpful, and perhaps something for a future video. Could be as simple as picking up a couple of high street jackets for your model, and seeing what’s off (and what could be adjusted).
Also in your fifth bullet you’ve used “right” when you likely meant “tight”.
Thanks.
I guess similar to the comparison of MTM and bespoke – comparing RTW to the others too
I’d forgotten about that article–yes, that’s a good example of illustrating sub-optimal fit. Not awful fit which hopefully readers of this blog can already spot; but more subtle fit issues.
I second Robin’s suggestion of showing both what good fit does and does not look like. Especially with the 3D nature of bespoke, I find it incredibly useful to see Simon in motion to demonstrate the benefit of good fit, but I can see how it could be hard to do the same with poor fit
Good Morning Simon,
Thank you for the wonderful good morning via this article! I am at work, and hence, unable to watch the video as of yet, but will do on my lunch.
I have however already greatly enjoyed the written portion, as always, and the visual treat of the lovely clothes in the background, and the impeccably tailored suits as worn by both of you. Please convey my regards to Charlie upon his perfectly tailored suit. I am a humongous fan of DB suits, and that fabric is quite perfect. Will you also be addressing the correct fit of trousers in conjunction with the rest of the suit? I know that it has been addressed in other blogs previously, but I would appreciate yr precise and poignant dissection of the issue and it is of course a relatively pressing point as so very many trousers do not fit correctly, or drape incorrectly based upon variations on the angle and diameter of the respective gentleman’s hips and seat and furthermore, the cut of the trousers themselves, whether roomy, or trim, or high or low rise, or even the angle of the upper side of the rear seat, or breadth of trouser leg, or wearer’s leg, and of course the issue of pleated or flat, and how well cut the pleats are if they are there. So many variables! I suppose if a man is to rely upon a good alterations tailor, that is simple enough, and if he also knows what should and should not be there, but perhaps and I think that this may be so, a sign post in the right direction might be both useful and appreciated.
Have a wonderful day, Sir! 🙂
Oh! Have you considered doing an article on the Mackinaw/Mackinac style coat? They are quite classic and stylish, and I have been seeing ever more coats inspired by them or simply vintage ones in recent years. I have a few but not a true classically styled one with a shawl collar, vertical hand warmer pockets, hip patch and flap pockets possibly with hand warmers, and a belt in a DB model, granted, the classic model is rather dated looking, but it is a classic in functionality as a cross over garment from smart to rugged, if made up in an appropriate fabric. Anyhow, I think it would be interesting, particularly with yr most recent line of articles and perspective, exploring more of the transitional and sportif.
Talk later! 🙂
Thanks Evan.
Yes on trousers, no on Mackinaw!
Hahaa! Laconic, but sure. It would be interesting though.
Hi Simon,
I was just pondering this, and I’m not sure if you’ve considered it, but the Mackinac coat is essentially a landsman’s Peacoat, with added hip pockets. Some have a back belt, some do not, some have shawl collars, some do not, some (most) are double breasted, a few are not, but they are all basically made up in very heavy blanket weight woolen type fabric and typically with hand warmer pockets. Food for thought. Of course, there is much greater latitude in what colors and even wild patterns are considered classical and acceptable in a Mackinac, and the predilection for belted models.
Interesting observations, but the one you haven’t made is that the suit in question doesn’t seem to fit very well.
Forget what is “fashionable” for a moment; the jacket is too short. This means there is no snap in the waist, leading to a lack of shape to it. This is even more apparent when viewed from the side.
It probably needs an extra 1.5cm, maybe 2.0, which would allow the waist snap and a slight flare in the skirt. This would deal with the straight up and down it currently has.
Is it really a bespoke garment Simon?
I don’t think you can forget what is fashionable David. Jackets have been much longer than this in the past, and shorter. The majority today are shorter.
(I was watching old Frasier episodes yesterday – the jackets end at mid-thigh!)
The shape in the waist is also more to do with the position of the waist (side and back) on the jacket, and the angle of the skirt, rather than the length. If it was higher, and more of a cavalry look as a result, and more flare put in the skirt, you would get that effect
Also, we will address length in detail in the next video… And the many ways to calculate the correct one
Love Frasier! Somehow I am not at all surprised that you watch it! Some of the suits and coats on that show are indeed ridiculously long and voluminous! C’est l’90s/00s. I preferred his suits and coats on Cheers, but it was an altogether inferior show, though it did give birth to Frasier….I have no major complaints! Hahahaa!
Frasier, quality clothes and a totally incongruous love of heavy metal… we have a strange amount in common.
In all seriousness though, it’s interesting to watch those early Frasier episodes and look back at what was considered to be stylish at the time; particularly as they made such a big thing about how much money Frasier and Niles spent on clothes etc. I’ve just looked up a quote from the episode where Niles takes delivery of some new shoes, which will no doubt resonate…
Niles: Aren’t they exquisite? Those shoes were individually handmade by an artisan toiling in a hilltop village above Florence. The man is a hero there. It’s an event when he completes a pair of shoes. They ring the cathedral bell and the whole town celebrates.
Roz: Now there’s a town that needs a bowling alley…
Love it, thanks so much. There seem to be so many quotes about shoes in particular.
It’s always the jacket cut that strikes me. The buttoning point on the double breasteds is level with the middle of the seat. It’s so low I don’t see how they can sit down without hitching the jacket up.
There’s always going to be an element of caricature in the wardrobe. I’d be surprised if the show’s creators didn’t amp up the fustiness of the clothing to fit the Cranes’ haughtiness in all things. That’s not to say that the show isn’t emblematic of the general style of the time, just that it’s probably on the extreme end of things. I don’t recall people wearing the sorts of ludicrously oversized clothing the male cast of Friends was dressed in during the early days of that show, but you’d think it was all the rage if you watched that and countless other mid-90s sitcoms and teen dramas.
I am not a fan of short jackets, but this one looks to be a perfect length – it covers the backside without being so long as to swallow the legs. The only thing I might have changed might have been to extend the shoulders a tad – as it is they look a little puny compared to those majestic lapels!
The previous comment was mine – I forgot to attach my name. I like to “own” my comments, so this was a slipup.
David G is wrong about the length (it’s too long if anything), but right that Charlie’s suit lacks shape and, for me, looks boring.
It’s interesting to compare Charlie’s jacket with those of the two jackets on the tailor’s dummies to the left in the background. These have clearly been cut much shorter and the waists are much trimmer. Are those Henry Poole jackets as well?
I’m very much looking forward to your video on jacket length, Simon.
Yes, those are all Poole jackets. Though as David says, mannequin jackets are rarely realistic on people – those have a pretty nipped-in waist
David, you are confusing fit with style. This suit fits him very well. Length, flair. , overlap, lapels … style.
Thanks Simon, although I am sorry but you really have lost me now.
How can skirt have an angle? And the “snap” has nothing to do with the position of the waist; it is about the way the sides of the jacket, when seen from there front, curve into the waist, under the mid arm, creating a more fitted silhouette.
Look at the shape of the jackets on the dummies, then the one being worn. The dummy will always exaggerate the snap, but it also demonstrates how it can look.
Regards
The skirt has an angle in the line it takes as it flares out from the waist, David.
The position of the waist affects how much snap there is, as you put it, because it may not be cut at the narrowest point of the wearer’s body.
Simon, a polite question.
Why are you always so quick to dismiss comments from guests who appear to challenge you? I thought David’s comments about the waist and skirt suggested an experienced eye, yet you seem to undermine his view.
Most of your guests just wildly agree with you; the debate and discuss elements of this blog are of much more interest and value in my view. Saying how lovely your jacket is doesn’t add much value does it?
Hi Tony,
Thanks for it. I agree, plain agreement doesn’t add anything.
I don’t think I dismissed David’s comment though. I disagreed with it, but gave it consideration and replied politely. Certainly that was my aim.
What I find slightly unexpected, is that people often mean why don’t I change my view as a result of someone’s comment. I don’t think it should be surprising that this happens rarely, given how much thought I put into my view.
Commenters very often add great information and viewpoints, but usually we continue to have different opinions. Which is very welcome and healthy.
Thanks
Not sure if possible, but you always comment on how hard it is to judge the fit from stand still pictures. Now you have the chance to showcase how great a bespoke jacket can be compared to rtw in the way it moves. Great video. Looking forward to see more.
Yes, good point. Perhaps something on a bespoke jacket in movement would be good
Excellent idea, Peter!
Great educational video again and as always presented in a very pleasant style. Are you going to cover proper lapel fit particularly how to avoid nasty breaks on chest level in the lapel flow downwards caused by a prominent/athletic chest. Even Lorenzo didn’t get that right in my last suit.
That sounds rather too specific to a body type to cover effectively Fatih, and perhaps the particular house cut as well
Thanks Simon
It’s good to be able to exchange ideas and expand a bit on what one’s personal preferences steer us towards. What looks good on some evidently won’t look good on others, and whilst you bring out a number of valuable principles here, (shoulder, neck, pitch etc) the end result of this suit is not something I would have thanked my tailor of 30 years for.
I think the tricky bit here is that these valuable principles don’t recognise proportion; maybe that will come at a later stage.
All the best.
Many thanks Simon.
The cut of the jacket is very interesting when compare to the one you had done by Henry Poole. It seems to me this one has a slightly wider lapel with a bit more belly and a lower gorge? Have Henry Poole adapted their house style or is that quite a lot of flexibility in it?
Do you think you could discuss these style variations at some point in a later video?
There’s quite a lot of flexibility in those kind of things at Poole usually. You’re not going to be getting a thin straight lapel, but small changes in the gorge height etc are accetable
Sorry if I’ve missed this above, Simon, but which of your jackets are you wearing in the video? A lovely cloth.
I didn’t mention it, no. It’s my W Bill donegal tweed, made by Steven Hitchcock – details here
Brill – thanks!
The Donegal tweed jacket looks even better in motion!
Hi Simon,
What shirt and tie are you wearing with it? It does seem to smarten up nicely.
Thanks. It’s a pale blue poplin shirt from Budd, with a gold knitted-silk tie
I recently had a MTM adventure with Anglo-Italian and all in all, it went well.
My normal tailor is A&S and if it was something I was going to wear regularly, I’d have gone there.
In this instance I required a births, deaths and marriages suit and couldn’t justify A&S with my £ per wear criteria.
A-M did a good job. I took a charcoal grey in a 3 seasons weight. The cut is good and the only thing I really notice vis a vis bespoke is the armhole height.
Something which will be forever an issue with MTM.
The service was excellent. All in all a great option for the more frugal flaneur.
I think we all agree that fashion trends have made jackets way too tight overall when looking at the high street brands. This tightness has also certainly been overdone around the waist. But nonetheless I think it is very important from a style point of view, that there is a certain amount of tension in the waist which can result in some wrinkling. And I personally dont care for straight clean lines at the waist. Many well dressed man have a certain amount of wrinkling on most of their jackets when they are buttoned (Luca Rubinacci, Lapo Elkann..). I consider this sharp, close to the body cut in this area especially important for a double breasted jacket to look sharp and not boxy. This is way more important than the absence of wrinkling.
Another great video Simon.
Will you be doing a similar one on how a shoe should fit?
I wasn’t planning one, but that’s a good idea, yes.
It’s a nicely fitted coat.
Spring Ram is good cloth.
Hi Simon, nothing to do with the topic of this post but would highly appreciate if you could help. Was thinking in having made a 13.5oz double breasted suit from the City of London Holland and Sherry bunch. What do you think? would it be too heavy? Could you point me to other heavier cloths that I could wear all year round without being too much? Thanks in advance for your help.
Hi Antonio,
It depends what you normally wear – if you haven’t had much made before, that would certainly feel heavy, though I’d find it ok. You might want to start with something closer to 11.
I’m not great on suit bunches like that though, so I’d suggest asking the tailor for recommendations in that area
Simon,
What about the book your charcoal Ciardi was from?
That would be practical, yes, the 4-ply from Drapers. But it’s a dry, high-twist fabric, not like the normal worsted business suitings that the City of London book contains
The reason why the overall appearance of this coat, despite all the technically good points, is not wonderful is, it seems to me, the double breasted style. For some reason this is a style which, however skilled the tailor, never seems to work well on thin people. Any views?
I think that all depends on the cut Triskel – the width of the shoulder, the length, width and curve of the lapel, and the buttoning point.
Worth having a look at the comparisons here maybe:
https://www.permanentstyle.com/2016/09/five-double-breasted-styles-compared.html
The difference between Poole and Cifonelli is pretty marked
Triskel
I made the point earlier in this thread that the reason this jacket seems to fit poorly is that there is no snap in the waist. It just looks like a regular cylinder shape from top to bottom.
Thank you, Simon. I hadn’t seen that comparison post and you are, indeed, correct that there is a vast difference between the coats made by the two houses you mention.
Thank you, also, Anonymous. As a fan of a “traditional” English waisted style I agree that the particular problem with the coat shown in the video is that it looks too much like a tube, but even with a more pronounced “snap” to the waist I am still not sure that a thin man can carry off a double breasted suit successfully, whereas a middle to fat man can. I used to think the reason was that I associated double breasted with older wearers, but now I incline to the (admittedly purely subjective) view that it is just more difficult to get this style right on the thin.
Very helpful as ever. On the back though, I struggle working out how best to handle my hollow back. I definitely don’t want to overly accentuate it but ignoring it can make the back shapeless. I also find sometimes that on a more shaped coat, the vent can push out over my backside unattractively. What advice would you give on optimizing this?
I have the same issue Clive, and it’s just a question of finding a nice halfway point.
Look at the side profile in a mirror, when being fitted, and aim for something that doesn’t stick out over the seat, but still has just a little shape
Simon,
It was easier to look at your jacket, rather than the Poole suit, when listening to your descriptions. Because the Donegal had a nice, lighter toned fleck, your jacket’s fabric was easier to read on camera. The dark cloth on your model swallowed the light and may account for some of the earlier comments criticizing its look.
I would encourage you to use fabrics that reflect more light for future videos.
Good point Jim, thanks
Aren’t Charlie’s arms noticeably different in length? Or maybe one shoulder rather more sloping than the other? I was focusing on knuckle alignment to judge jacket length and thought that I would think fine alignment with the right but shortish with the left. Maybe something to take notice for jacket length references in subsequent videos.
No offence meant to Charlie, I am not saying it is a challenge of any kind.
Would it look weird if someone wore a waistcoat with a double breasted suit?
Not necessarily weird, but rather traditional and perhaps a little unusual
If I wore a pair of high-rise trousers there would be five layers covering the naval
Ha! Yes it could get kind of thick. You might end up just wearing the waistcoat or the jacket, and rarely both. Though also, it depends on the cloth. Some will be half the thickness of others.
Simon – I know you’ve mentioned before how you like to keep items such as keys, phone, etc in a bag or similar rather than in a pocket but if one is more apt to keep a phone in an interior breast pocket of a jacket, is there anything a tailor can do to minimise its impact on overall appearance & wear, e.g. a pocket within the pocket?
Yes, there are a few things.
1 – Don’t make the pocket the same size as the phone (very annoying if your phone changes – I’ve made that mistake before) but make sure it’s narrow enough that your phone can’t fall over sideways within the pocket
2 – Have a little drape in the chest, so there’s something for the phone to sit within
3 – Make sure the bottom of the pocket is not so low that it sits within the waist of the jacket – so when buttoned, you can feel the jacket pushing against the phone. It can’t be too high either, as then it will be behind the thickness of the top of the outbreast pocket. But between those two. My A&S jackets always did a good job of that.
There usually is a pocket inside the left forepart. Most issues above disappear, use that. Just make sure to ask your tailor for generous width, as default it will not be enough.
Is there more detail on the cloth the suit is made of? Looks like a nice color and texture.
It’s Harrison’s Spring Ram – I can get the precise code for you if you need it
Hi Simon,
Does this apply to blazers / sport coats in the exact same way, or would you have subtle differences for those?
Thanks!
Yes, it applies to jackets as well. The only things that might change with a jacket would be style points like pockets, buttons etc, and perhaps a tiny bit of length
Hi Simon. May I ask why you would prefer jackets to be a tiny bit longer than suits? I was under the impression that jackets should be shorter, since (well at least from my perspective, do correct me if i’m wrong) a jacket and trouser outfit would be more modern and casual compared a full suit, hence a shorter length would be more suitable.
Thanks.
Sorry, I did mean a little shorter!
Thanks for your previous answer regarding using the same approach for sport coats / jackets.
I do have one other question though, and that is about the sleeve length. I understand the ‘you always need to show off a bit of cuff from a shirt’ advice, but that does not give me an idea of how long my sport coat sleeves should actually be. Even more so when I have shirts with different sleeve lengths.
Would you say that the sleeve of a sport coat should end right above the top of your wrist bone (or the hinge of your wrist)?
I found this advice in this article: https://blacklapel.com/thecompass/how-long-should-my-suit-jacket-sleeves-be/
But I am curious on your personal approach and preference. Would you care to share this? Also regarding shirt sleeve length (as the two are almost always combined)?
Thanks Simon!
Hey Ronnie,
There’s no point specifying sleeve lengths on anything if you don’t have consistency. So I think you need to endeavour to get your shirts and your jackets to consistent lengths. Perhaps by deciding on an ideal length for both now, and then working towards that with new commissions, so it happens over time.
But there’s also nothing wrong with tweaking that depending on what you already have, so for example working off a shirt sleeve length you have lots of.
I personally always ask the tailor to set the sleeve length by my shirt cuffs, and ignore anything else. Because pretty much all my shirts are the same. And there’s no point whatever making a jacket sleeve that is ‘correct’ but doesn’t work with any of those shirts.
Hi Simon,
Thank you for your clear answer. The key is definitely to be consistent, whatever your preference regarding shirt/jacket and sleeve length might be.
But for me, I currently am at a new beginning of my wardrobe. When I was a bit younger, I had some nice basics but never really gave much thought regarding fit. A couple years went by, I went to the gym and here I am: about to buy my first blazer. Shirts will follow.
I want to be consistent, but I do need a starting point you see. And I thought the top of my wrist bone for a jacket sleeve length is a good one, but was afraid it might be too short. Also: the jacket will be a Suitsupply one. I will definitely ask the tailor there for his advice, but rather get it from someone (you) who has been longer in the game AND is a bit less ‘contemporary’.
I hope you understand my situation, and therefore could provide me with feedback regarding sleeve lengths for shirt/jacket (other than investing in something else than Suitsupply).
Hope to hear,
Ronnie
In that case Ronnie, yes having the jacket end on the wrist bone is fine, and not too fashion-y. The middle of that bone, not the start.
And bear in mind that a small adjustment, of a centimetre or less, is not a hard thing to do after the jacket is finished. So you can tweak it later to find your perfect length. And then be consistent going forward
Hi Simon,
Thanks for your response. Hopping to the tailor today 😀
Helpful. Any visibility for the release of the fit of trousers?
No, sorry Richard. Covid has made these things difficult. Though we did do this piece on trouser rise.
Hi Simon,
Hope all is well. Forgive me if you’ve already covered this, but I searched and couldn’t find anything on your site about it. I’m getting an MTM suit made and the sleeve width seems obviously large on the fitting jacket. They have the ability (within a range of course) to narrow the sleeve width. Some guidance or general information would be fantastic.
My problem is I’m skinny and have wider shoulders for my height/weight, so a standard 38 jacket has very wide sleeves on me. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
Hi SN,
Happy to help. The problem is it’s hard to give advice remotely on quite how much you should have taken off. Can I suggest that you tell the maker you want a slimmer sleeve, and see what they suggest? Also keep in mind that a bigger sleeve, as long as not ridiculous, can look good, stronger
Hi Simon, I’m a big fan and a long time reader of yours. What comment would you give on the fit of my suit? Lapel gap, some X at the button, high gorge, etc. I feel like the lapel/chest gap is very annoying. Thank you.
Hey Tony,
To be honest it looks like a pretty well-fitting suit, but as I always say it’s hard to tell from photos.
The fit all looks pretty good – that gap is barely noticeable and neither is the straining you say there is at the waist button. Both really depend how evident they are when you’re moving or walking around, rather than standing stock still.
From a style point of view, yes the gorge is very high, which I don’t like so much but it’s personal. I like a waist button a touch lower too, but that’s more personal still.
Thank you for your reply! I think next time I will tell the tailor to give more drape in my chest and have a lapel dart (he said my big thick chest makes it hard to let the lapel lay flat). Unbuttoning the jacket also removes the gap, so maybe I will move the waist button down next time. For the first time I did not want to risk it so I went with their default gorge height, but next time will be better!
Cheers.
I think in general, having a slightly more roomy fit will help the jacket to lie comfortable around your torso. Not just drape, but a slightly bigger shoulder, waist and so on. It does look like a fairly close fit ta the moment.
Hi, Simon!
I have a conundrum: I have two jackets of similar proportions and styles, almost exact measurements, and one fits perfect but the other just so-so. What could be the reasons for this? Both are moderately slim, same shoulder width, buttoning point and waist suppression, soft construction (one more than the other), slightly lower gorge, 3-roll-2 configuration. The visible differences: better fitting jacket is softer and has different shoulders (cigarette vs natural and softer vs lightly padded), slimmer and shorter sleeve, higher armhole, softer fabric (worsted vs mid-size cashmere on the worse-fitting). The better fitting one is perfect everywhere, but the worse fitting one feels big in the chest, there’s some pull on the sleeves and looks boxier. Otherwise the dimensions are almost exactly the same.
It’s really hard to tell remotely Stephan, I’m sorry. There is a myriad of things that could affect it – the amount of drape in the chest, whether the shoulders need to be lifted up etc etc. Really things that aren’t to do with the style aspects you describe.
Thanks, will visit a tailor to see what’s going on.
Hi Simon,
I have a question about the body’s shoulder width against the measurement of a tailoring jacket with no padding through the shoulders.
For instance, if the body shoulder measurement is 44cm, would you say 44/44.5cm jacket’s shoulder width is the most fitted jacket or 45/46cm since there is a tiny bit of extra room (1-2cm) from the tip of the shoulders and jacket’s shoulder crown?
I assume different tailors have their styles when cutting the jacket, but assuming that if you had to choose one from the RTW rack, which would you go for?
Many thanks,
Jack
I’d certainly go with the latter of those two Jack, but I’d also encourage you to focus on how the jacket looks in the mirror, and what proportions appeal to you, rather than being too precise with the numbers
Thanks, Simon.
I have realised that most of my jackets’ shoulder width were precisely the same or only a tiny bit wider(0.3-0.4cm) than my shoulder width measurement, which was pretty surprising to me as most of them didn’t look snug at all and most importantly, they were comfortable.
However, some looked pretty snug when they have the same shoulder measurements from comfortable ones. From your experience of commissioning bespoke jackets, which other factors do you think could affect the fit? Could it be due to cloths or other measurements such as chest or waist?
Although, you mentioned don’t focus too much on the measurements, I am a bit confused as I thought measurements were fairly precise system that we have been using.
Hi Jack,
There are quite a few other factors that will come into it. For example, the shoulder seam might be in one place, but the sleevehead beyond it is large, and has a lot of fullness at the top, so there’s lots of room for your shoulder to sit inside. Another jacket may not have that, and be cleaner.
Other factors include the size of the armhole relative to your arm, the fullness in the back of the shoulder, in the chest, and even the material itself.
My point on the measurements is not that they are not precise, but that many factors go into aspects of fit like this, and focusing on one measurement won’t give the whole story. It’s also the kind of thing that men tend to do – get technical and detailed, rather than seeing the wood for the trees – which is why I warn against it.
Measurements are more useful in simple aesthetic questions, like the size of a lapel, or the back length.
Thank you very much for a clear and detailed explanation. I appreciated it.
Hi, Simon. If the vents gape a bit on a good RTW jacket, can this be fixed somehow? I found a sublime Ermenegildo Zegna jacket that fits great overall but the vents open up due to my big seat :/ Thanks!
Not really, unfortunately. Sometimes it can be mitigated by using the inlay in the jacket, but a RTW one won’t really have much of that
Thanks, that was my guess too but really wanted to get the jacket. Incredible hand camel-cashmere-silk in a gorgeous camel colour with a mid-brown glen plaid, such a perfect cokd weather jacket. Soft pad shoulder with a slight ‘con rollino’ and soft construction. Gutted they didn’t have one size up, but it is what it is.
Ah well. Sounds nice Stephan, and there might be other areas where a good alterations tailor could improve the fit if it’s needed
Thanks, Simon. I guess it was just not meant to be. Btw thanks for all your advice which has helped me get a better fit on quite a few rtw jackets over the years!
No problem Stephan, really pleased to hear that.
Hi, Simon!
If a suit jacket is getting messy when buttoned by pulling up etc. in the back between the seat and the shoulder blades and around the vents, is it usually a sign that it should be let out in the waist? Or is there another problem at hand?
Thanks,
S
It sounds like there’s more room needed somewhere, but it’s really hard to judge these things remotely Stephan. I’d hesitate to analyse it definitively in person even. The best thing is to find an alterations tailor you trust and ask their advice
Hi Simon – I have a similar-sounding issue with one of my jackets. (it seems a real challenge with bespoke is that the first commission can often be not quite right). It’s quite unclear when the maker will next be in London. Who would you recommend most as great alterations tailors in London?
I’d recommend Pinnas & Needles, though they have been a bit backed-up recently
Thanks, Simon! Still on the lookout for that in Vienna, any tips welcome from you or readers!
Hi Simon, I have noticed one of my bespoke jacket’s right chest collapsed and wrinkled. After watching the video, I assume this is probably due to the position of the armhole. Do you think there is any way for me to correct this?
Many thanks,
Jack
I would go and talk to a good alterations tailor, Jack. It’s hard to tell what’s causing that even if I saw the jacket in person – it could be a few different things
I see. Thank you, Simon
Hi Simon, I have noticed there are some creases around the waist of my bespoke jacket when I put my mobile phone and card wallet in both inner breast pockets. In this case, which part of the cloth would you usually let out?
Many thanks,
Jack
It’s hard to say Jack – if those items are quick bulky, it might be inevitable, but that also depends on the cloth. If it were something that could be done with letting out, it would be the chest and perhaps the waist. But I feel you’re better off showing this issue to a good alterations tailor, rather than trying to diagnose yourself
Hi Simon, I have two jackets made by a bespoke tailor and would like to ask for your advice on the fit.
The first jacket was made in 11oz tweed and the fit was great except that the armholes were cut slightly high for me. We therefore agreed to lower them for the second jacket which was made in 13oz linen. As a result, the second jacket had good armhole positions but had some minor issues in other areas, such as long sleeves lengths (around 2cm), wide upper sleeves (around 1cm), and roomy upper back. They are all pretty easy for the tailor to alter but I am not quite sure whether this happened because the two jackets were made in different fabrics which react differently to the body or the other factors were not taken into account when the armholes were lowered.
I am planning to commission another jacket in the same weight tweed but am concerned that the new commission jacket may now be too small and short if the fit issue had been caused by the fabric difference as I did the latest fitting with the linen jacket.
Although it would be very tricky for you to give any advice based on the above information, I would appreciate it if you could share your thoughts on this.
Many thanks,
Jack
It is Jack, you’re right. I would only say that I doubt the differences like the sleeve length are to do with the fabric – that’s something the tailor should see at the final fitting and nail down. The room in the back might be, but the shoulders I’d say is unlikely to be
I see, thank you for sharing your thoughts on this.
So would you assume that lowering the armhole positions could have made the jacket generally more roomy as compared to having higher armholes?
It could feel roomier, yes, but there wouldn’t actually be more room in the back or chest necessarily
Hi Simon, I recently commissioned a bespoke jacket and am having an issue with the sleeve lengths. The jacket sleeves are around 0.5 inch shorter than what I usually wear, which makes the shirt sleeves too visible.The jacket cuff already has four buttons, so adding another button is not an option for me. As this is my first time having an issue with the sleeves being too short, I wanted to ask what would be the best way to lengthen them without compromising the balance in the cuff area.
Many thanks,
Jack
Could you not lengthen it from the shoulder Jack? Have you asked the tailor that?
Yes, I have spoken to the tailor and apparently, as there is no inseam it would not be possible to lengthen it from the shoulder…
Ah, ok. One of the advantages of bespoke always, having that inlay