This is the second in a series of videos in which we're looking at how a jacket should fit. The first one, here, was a summary of the basics on fit.
In this second one, we look at the length of a jacket.
This is the kind of thing that can seem like a relatively small aspect of a suit, but I find has a fundamental effect on the overall style. It is also one a lot of modern jackets get wrong, producing unflattering tailoring.
In all three videos, Charlie from Henry Poole has kindly offered to be our guinea pig, in his Henry Poole bespoke suit - made up in Spring Ram cloth from Harrison’s
In this, the second video, we will look specifically at how long a jacket should be.
All the other tailoring in the background of the video is also by Henry Poole, using Harrison's cloth.
The points made in the video, in summary, are:
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There are generally three ways to consider how long a jacket should be.
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First, half the length from the collar to the floor, so roughly half of the suit is jacket, half trouser.
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However, that tends towards the long side for most jackets today. (Like lapels or tie widths, length varies over the years, but fortunately in decades not months).
- Charlie's measurement is 64 inches, so a 32-inch jacket, but his is actually 31.
- The second measurement is that the jacket should end at the second joint of your thumb.
- Or, the same thing, that you should be able to curl your fingers underneath the hem of the jacket.
- This is an easy one for a customer to remember and consider when they look at length in a mirror - but it does obviously depend on relative arm length
- The third, that the jacket should cover the seat. This is probably the most fundamental one.
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Few tailors would disagree that it’s elegant to cover your bum with the jacket, and it’s something a lot of modern brands get wrong, and is rather unflattering at the back
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One reason it's flattering is that if the jacket covers the seat, the legs run up into the bottom of the coat, looking like they never end
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All three ways are useful. But just as important is style.
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A jacket will look more casual if it’s shorter, and more formal if it’s longer
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Partly for that reason, a shorter jacket will often look better as a separate, rather than part of a suit
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In the end, you should consider all these things and make up your own mind.
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I tend to have sports jackets and suit jackets roughly the same length, but vary with style of the maker. For example, I have most Italian and French jackets cut shorter. But the rule I always abide by is that the seat should be covered
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You can compare these local styles by looking at the Guide to Tailor Styles, where I give the measurements on every bespoke tailor I’ve used
The first video on suit fit can be seen here.
Other practical videos we've produced are (also all on the YouTube channel):
Interesting video, Simon, but there’s no consideration of whether a longer jacket is needed for the man with a bigger backside. I find some tailors cut longer jackets because it’s the only way they can stop the vented section at the bottom of the jacket sticking out over the man’s bum. What adjustments could be made to the cut to avoid this, while maintaining a sensible and flattering jacket length? Some tailors seem unable to achieve the two things together.
Hi Russ,
You’re right, that can be an issue. Though as someone with quite a large seat, and a hollow lower back (which accentuates the problem) I haven’t found jackets have to be particularly long to deal with the problem. They just need to be fully covering it. It’s usually only a problem with much shorter jackets.
I won’t attempt to describe how a tailor would cut to deal with it, but certainly greater room over the hips and deeper vents have helped with me in the past.
Hi Simon, a useful overview. One other point which occurs to me is that whether a length looks ‘right’ depends a lot on the cut, too. You did, of course, mention house style and proportions, but I think that such matters as number of buttons, lapel shape, buttoning point, open-ness of quarters/foreparts, how “waisted” the coat is and, indeed, type and pattern of cloth can have an effect. I realise, even if you agree with me on any of these, that you can’t cover everything in a short video but I think this draws attention to the fact that a good tailor is not just organised and technically good, but has an indefinable taste which accords with the customer’s.
Yes, good points Triskel. All those things can have small effects , and the tailor should take them into consideration.
Though, I do find that some of these are already part and parcel of the house style in a way – so for example, a British military cut might have a high buttoning point, long jacket, and closed quarters. Which combine to make that front edge very long and the impression it gives very solid and closed. But the tailor is aware of that and it is part of the house style. You’re not about to shorten the jacket substantially to remove that effect.
Perhaps there are two separate questions: whether the tailor’s house style approach to length is one you like; and second, when they ask what length you want (which will mean fairly small variation, perhaps within a inch or so), what you go for and why.
Still not a fan of the shape of this coat I’m afraid, but the shot of the trousers from the back actually makes them look very good indeed.
I wouldn’t want to go up against Charlie in a staring contest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWgg20IqibM
Lol
Hi Simon,
Have you ever considered the weight of a fabric as a factor in how big/small a jacket appears? My own feeling over these past years is that thicker fabric makes me look bulkier and thus not as refined as a mid-weight or even light-weight fabric. I thought of this as the jacket you are wearing in this video seem a bit bulky to me, even though all the proportions are well balanced.
Best
Nicolas
I can see how that might be a minor factor Nicolas, yes.
For example, a dark, lightweight worsted is more forgiving in that regard than a bulky, patterned tweed.
We were talking the other week, in regards to the first video, about suits in the Frasier TV series. That long-jacket look is more noticeable when they wear sports jackets. Though even then it isn’t very bulky or bright cloth
Simon, please accept this observation in the positive way it is intended, and please equally do not imply any criticism of your model.
Wearing a DB well means you need a particular physique; strongish shoulders and a slim waist. It has nothing to do with build, bulk, mass, size etc. It has to do with proportion.
Your model has no relativity in his proportion. A well cut SB with a strong “X” would suit him so much better.
This is not about your model: it is about the choice if model you made to illustrate this article.
Not meant to be unkind at all in any way, but if you are hoping to make “informative/educational” videos, you need to take these basic points into account.
Thank you Al, and the point is certainly taken in the right spirit.
I find this topic interesting, though perhaps it’s not the best place to discuss it. Personally I’ve always felt that a double-breasted has greater potential to create that slim-waisted, broad-shouldered ideal physique, more than a single breasted. There is, after all, longer line and broader shape in the lapel to play with. Certainly that’s always been the effect it’s had on me.
However, I don’t really think whether the suit flatters Charlie or not is relevant to a video talking about how a suit fits on the body, or length.
Thanks Simon.
Your reply makes me think that I didn’t make my point very well.
Hi Al,
Sorry if you feel I misunderstood. Do feel free to clarify if you want to?
It all depends how it’s cut.
I have very broad shoulders and my sartorial desire is always to look less like a nightclub bouncer. A&S achieve this for me in both SB&DB because it’s all about the drape.
Great video. Very informative. One micro point: you say the third way of determining (looking at the backside) is “objective;” it should have been “subjective.”
Hi,
Thank you. I did actually mean objective – as in, it is less personal as to whether that measurement is considered flattering or not. Because there is an absolute to look at (the legs looking longer).
With the others, it’s more a question of what looks right or wrong, or personally people feel is more or less flattering.
I hope that makes sense?
Very good!
Hi Simon,
Interestingly enough, bespoke tailoring aside, British brands usually offer three options to customers who want to buy any tailoring jackets: short, regular and long. Apparently, they are the only ones to do so.
John
Hi John,
That practice does exist elsewhere, and I’ve certainly seen it in the US for example.
It is a shame more brands don’t offer it though. It would make it much easier to deal with the issue that sizing assumes everyone gets taller as they get fatter, for example.
I think the key reason it’s not done is just that brands focus more on trends, and offer more style options, and can therefore offer less deep stock in any one style of suit.
Simon, fantastic post and very insightful.
On a related note, if buying fabric to take to a tailor to make into a jacket, how many metres would typically be typically required?
Usually around 2m – probably in the range of 1.8m to 2.2m, though it depends a lot on height and girth, and a little on style (eg double breasted or single, patch pockets or not)
Hi then, The correct length of the jacket, 1/2 of the height minus 5,.1/8″
Simon,
Ond topic that would be interesting to read your views on is the buttoning point of double breasted jackets. Does the overlap of fabric change the ideal position vs a single breasted. I know eg that some people have strong views on how the lowest row of buttons line up with the pockets (too much below making the jacket proportions look wrong). At the same time you see much variation among different tailors.
Thanks
Interesting point, yes something to look at. I presume you’ve seen the simple comparison here?
Thanks
Yes, surprisingly consistent in the comparison. The double breasted in the video seems lower. Have also seen some others where the lowest button is 1,5-2 inches below the pocket line. I think it lengtens the lapel line nicely but can also make the jacket look a bit droopy. I guess it has to do with the placement of the pockets as well.
Very true.
I think points like the bottom button being in line with the pockets is a rule of thumb, not an absolute. Like most things in menswear, something worth understanding and realising why it’s valuable, but not necessarily following slavishly.
I think jackets like the 6×1 of my Cifonelli velvet jacket can have that issue with looking ‘droopy’ too.
Hi Simon,
Interesting video! I was wondering if the vents have any influence on the appropriate length? I would imagine the a jacket with only one vent in the back will look rather strange if its cut short compared to a double-vented jacket.
Also, would you use the same measurements for tuxedos?
Hi Rune,
Yes you’re right, shortness becomes more of an issue with a single vent. But I don’t have any jackets with a single vent, and I’d generally advise against them unless you want a specific hacking/riding look. Single vents largely became popular with RTW tailoring because they were cheaper to make. There are few other advantages.
And on a tuxedo, I would tend towards the more formal and probably longer, but the jackets discussed here would be fine in that regard. I would just be even less likely to go with a shorter, Neapolitan length.
Judging length by the relative position to the thumb could be quite misguiding as
my arms have a good 5cm difference in length. I normally ask for length based on my existing
jackets.
Peter
Simon,
Might I suggest another way of describing “covering the seat” is that the jacket (at a minimum) should cover the pinnacle of the crotch. This again, would be another way of accounting for variances in body dimensions, arm length, etc.
Some modern styled jackets – especially from the back – allow one to see the “top of the fjord’, which I believe is a stylistic no – no.
One other thing I would ask/consider…bespoke tailoring is about many things, timelessness being one of them…Do you believe an exceptionally short jacket (no matter how well constructed) will be able to look impressive 20 years from now? Or will it have the same obviously dated look as a suit from the 1970’s does today?
Hi,
I think that’s a good point about the crotch. The only issue is that it’s very dependent on the foreparts as well – how open they are and perhaps where the waist button is and therefore where that opening begins.
Loris Vestrucci talks about his cut wanting to cover the ‘modesty’ of a man and therefore having more closed foreparts, but for most southern Italian tailors, that is so open that even a longer jacket would not cover it.
On tailoring over time, to be honest I don’t know the history of jacket lengths over the past 50 years very well – I’d love it if someone could point towards a resource that has tracked this (in the same way some, I think, have tracked hemlines on women).
But anecdotally, looking at the long lengths of the 80s into the 90s, and the very short lengths of 2010 onwards, I do feel like the lengths shown here are somewhere in the middle of the range, and therefore a little safer in the long term.
Surely the comment about crotch/length is about where the bottom of the jacket aligns at the front, rather than what it covers?
Oh, maybe. That’s not how I read it, as he talks about covering. But maybe I was wrong.
Simon…It is amazing how many words one needs to describe something that we can visualize easily.
The “crotch” rule would apply to viewing the jacket/pants from the rear.
The rule cannot apply to the front owing to variances of lower jacket curve, buttoned/unbuttoned, etc., If the rear is cut appropriately, the front should fall into line.
I view it the same way we employ baseboards where the floor meets the wall, and we need a way to visually truncate the potential unevenness of material, etc.
As long as the rear of the jack (line) truncates the line of the inseam, and we do not get to see where the two legs meet, it looks “finished”
Oh, and on the 1970’s, I am thinking of the airliner – wing sized lapels, and dazzling and bizarre fabric patterns of my fathers’ suits…. I can’t say I remember much about the lengths of the jackets…
Simon, I miss reading your articles. Can’t wait to get going. Soon soon. Be safe and well.
Frank
Cheers Frank, pleased to hear that – do keep up your comments on the new ones, always appreciated
What’s your ‘distance from the bottom of the collar to the floor’ measurement Simon? And how for example does the jacket you’re wearing in this video match up to the ‘half that length’ principle? Do you generally allow yourself to be led by the tailor’s instinct in determining length or do you have a certain range you like to keep within? Many thanks, Roger
Hi Roger,
It obviously depends a little bit on the jacket and how high the collar sits, but mine is pretty similar to Charlie’s: around 64.5 or 65 inches. So the conclusion is similar, in that halving this would produce a slightly long jacket by today’s standards.
I tend to have a range I’m happy with Roger, rather than going off the tailor’s suggestion (although few actually suggest something specific). I would say what I’d normally have (based off what I know from the length on my thumb) and then only consider changing it if the tailor looks uncomfortable or uncertain about that.
I hope that helps
hugely informative as always. A quick clarification – in the style breakdown series I believe you measure jacket length from the bottom of the collar to the bottom of the jacket? But here we’re talking about the top of the collar down. Presumably then for this ‘half the total distance’ indicator of jacket length you do mean that the jacket length from top of the collar to the bottom of the hem should be half the distance from top of the collar to the floor? i.e. if you were measuring Charlie’s jacket for the style breakdown series, absent of that additional collar length, it would be more like 30 inches?
Good point Edward. Yes, almost. The jacket collar is normally more like 1.5 inches deep, so it would take off 3/4 inches from the length
Interesting discussion… I am a tailor and I just thought I’d add my tuppance ha’penny!
If we are talking pure bespoke tailoring then really, everything should be in proportion with everything else. Tailored clothing works best when it is working with the body’s joints. A top/overcoat’s ideal length is on or just above the knee, a sleeve looks best when it is cut so the cuff sits into the crook of the wearers wrist. The scye (armhole) depth should be as close as possible to the armpit, etc, etc.
When taking a new set of measures, I would look at the customers stance, i.e. how far apart his feet are and also how big his head and how tall He is. I would be looking to balance these points and the shoulder width and coat length would be part of that balance. If a customer requires a short coat as an aesthetic consideration, I would use his required coat length as the starting point, narrow the shoulder, raise the waistline, pockets, button height and also narrow the lapels and raise the gorge. The pocket flaps and out breast welt would be shallower too… Because the shoulder is narrower the coat would need to be a closer fit through the body and the sleeve narrower. If the customer wanted a long coat the opposite of the above would be necessary. You can see the extremes of either will be unflattering because the garment will no longer be working with the wearers body. Alter just the length or any of the other parts on their own and the coat will be out of proportion with itself.
Hopefully we are through the fashion where men want coats finishing at the broadest part of their seat. That is just highlighting often the biggest horizontal measure and isn’t flattering on anybody, even if you have snake hips!
The bottom of the coat ideally will finish at the bottom of the wearers seat to make the most of his leg length and a well proportioned person’s knuckle When making a fist is a good guide to this. It’s dangerous to always use arm length as a guide though because people’s arms can be disproportionately long or short! A customer with short arms will make a coat look long and vice versa. Many times if the pattern starts off at the right length, the width of the shoulder and other considerations kind of fall into place, this is particularly true when cutting for more challenging figures.
Splitting the ground measure in half ( ‘ground’ is nape to floor with shoes on) will cut a long coat. Half ground minus an inch will be closer but only a guide. Fittings really help to fine tune this.
Coat length is perhaps more complex than at first glance…
I feel the comment by Wayward covered many points rather well and answered some of the questions raised by other commenters. Curiously it did not get any responses!
Dear Simon,
I would like to point out that sometimes aspects of a jacket can further elongate the
silhouette of a jacket. My girlfriend always notices the length on my Zizolfi jacket asking me whether it’s not too long and I believe the perception comes from the relatively slim silhouette in the body, chest and shoulders and the open quarters. My Whitcomb and Shaftesbury suit is the exact same length and she thinks it’s shorter on the basis that the chest has more horizontal prominence and perhaps the eye stops earlier at the closed quarters rather than the opened Neapolitan ones. The English jacket also doesn’t have the long vertical dart in the front which I believe visually elongates the jacket. (I made no comments about jacket length).
I would like to ask about how jacket length varies. (all of this is of course conditional). If we are saying that Dege and Skinner or Richard Anderson produce a ” a long skirted coat” how should this theoretically reflect on jacket length? The distance between the nape of my neck to the floor is 64in. and my two very different stylistically jackets are both at 32in. Should I expect cutters at Dege or Richard Anderson to naturally cut a 33-34 in coat? I realise all this is conditional and highly hypothetical, but still your experience/view would be helpful as when I asked my coat at W&S to be longer, they tried to persuade me that it shouldn’t be longer.
P.S. On a Kirby Allison video with huntsman, the resident cutter in New York said that nowadays he would take a half in. off of the half distance between neck and floor, which really confused me given that they were supposed to cut the longest of the jackets on SR.
Best
Alex
Hey Alex,
First of all, good points on the relative perception of jacket length. I think all those things can make a difference – particularly the chest shape.
On the length of the others, Whitcomb and Zizolfi are not the shortest of jackets to start with (compared to the younger Neapolitans, for example). So I wouldn’t expect Dege, Richard Anderson or Huntsman to be a lot longer. But they might be a bit, by default.
My Dege jacket, for example, was 32 1/4, Richard Anderson was the same, and Huntsman was 33. My Whitcomb was 32.
These are all small differences between not that dissimilar tailors. There are also sometimes small differences between cutters. And you can certainly personally choose this amount of difference in length as the customer – perhaps a maximum of an inch.
I hope that’s helpful
Dear Simon,
this was a very helpful answer indeed. I have the feeling that all these are relatively short to the length of jackets in the 70s-80s and 90s. I feel jackets used to be larger in chest and definitely longer. R.A. has posted a picture of a coat when he was probably 20 years old working under Hammick and I really liked the jacket. Had drape in the chest even though it was Huntsman and was long.
Alex
Dear Simon, I was wondering if you could reccomend some high quality London tailors who would be willing to do a bespoke suit/MTM in a more contemporary cut eg a shorter jacket as in the below photo. My budget would be around £3000. Thanks Gareth
https://www.instagram.com/p/CEgEc5mnJXi/
Well, that is a fairly smart suit still, even if it’s shorter. If you want that, I’d suggest someone like Thom Sweeney perhaps? Or for something softer, perhaps Anglo-Italian. If it doesn’t have to be someone based in London, then Saman Amel or Jean-Manual Moreau MTM
Thank you for your advice. It is much appreciated!
Dear Simon,
For shorter blokes, do you suggest that suit- and odd trousers have a little break or no break at all?
Thanks,
Stephan
No break at all will be a little more flattering, but it’s only one factor. Style is also a factor, and if you prefer trousers to look like that, that should probably outweigh the other ones.
There is a post on this here if you haven’t read it.
Dear Simon,
What I note missing here is a discussion on balance.
What I mean here is the relative ‘distances’ between different parts of the jacket. That is, is it important e.g. that the buttoning point is roughly half way between the shoulder/sleeve nexus and the hem of the jacket? Or that a no-flap pocket/bottom of a pocket’s flap should be a certain distance from the hem? That kind of stuff. Or are these less relevant? Could you share your views on this?
Thanks,
Stephan
Hi Stephan,
Sure, it will take a longer post at some point, but happy to do so.
For the moment, bear in mind that there is a fairly clear division between those points that are largely influenced by trends, and those that are not.
So the buttoning height on a jacket, like the length and lapel width, varies with trends and with personal preference.
The position of the hip pockets, on the other hand, are rarely influenced by these things – eg they will usually be in line with the lower button on the jacket, whose position is determined by the top button.
Hi Simon, if the jacket should bisect the body in half, and if the jacket should at least cover the seat, would you say that the jacket length should be roughly equal to the trouser inseam? This being a starting point, of course. Since I have a long torso and short legs, I find that my jackets are 1-2″ longer than my trouser inseam.
I’m not sure I’d make that comparison, just because trouser lengths can vary with style as well. I’d look more at the three judgments in this video, and then consider all of them – none is a rule, just different points to consider. As you say, they’re starting points.
Then you can decide if, because your torso is slightly longer, you want to err on the shorter side with your jacket for example.
I have a bunch of sports jackets, 2 suits, a blazer. Most of them are different from each other and each one looks a little better with a different length. One long Pendleton tweed western jacket with suede shoulder and back yolk with suede sleeve patches, and is at least 2 inches longer than my thumbs, but the long length looks amazing with it. Another is a new Banana Republic slim fit white cotton seersucker jacket which is around the top of my thumb, very short for me, and it too looks great like that. My leather and suede sports jackets are all longer and look great that way. A double-breasted wide-shouldered Brioni houndstooth jacket is also long and looks great that way. Most of the rest hit the second thumb knuckle and look perfect that way. I’m 6′ 1″ 180 lbs, and wear a 42 either long or regular, depending on the style of the jacket. I like jackets that stand out and aren’t boring looking. Works for me. 🙂 Bob
Great information. Just what I needed. The video was great as well.
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Hi! Nice video talking about past and present standards for the first place. By chest size I have to find US40 suits or sport coats, but my height is 5’8” or 173cm. When I buy jeans or trousers I need to buy 29” long ones. I found most vintage sport coats of size 40R to be at least 30” long, which can make me look short. 40S ones have 29” collar-to-hem lengths that almost matches the trouser length, but they are mostly too short for the sleeves (23” compared to a 25” for 40R which fits me better). Should I focus more on jacket length or sleeve length, besides chest and shoulder length, if I want to do as little alteration as possible when buying sport coats?
Definitely focus on jacket length. Sleeve length is easy to alter – from the end or from the shoulder. Jacket length is largely impossible
Hi Simon, I am urgently hunting for a dinner jacket for a black-tie event, and I think it would be great if you could check the jacket’s length, whether it looks too short or the right length.
Many thanks,
Jack
I have attached the photos below.
Many thanks,
Jack
None of these photos really help Jack – have you watched the video and seen how it does on the different ways you can assess what is ‘right’?
Yes, I have, but to me, it looks around 2cm above where you said a jacket should fall. I just wanted to ask whether this should be okay.
That’s doesn’t sound like a lot, but I think the point is Jack that you use the guides in here and then make up your own mind – understand why those guidelines exist, and then work out what you like or don’t. Don’t just blindly follow the ‘rules’
Thanks, Simon, for your advice.
Hi Simon. An interesting video and a lot of interesting comments. I have been wondering about “correct” length for some time as, when I lost a fair amount of weight (around 20kg) and had my suits taken in, the jackets felt too long so I had them shortened (possibly by an inch). Lengthwise, they then seemed right. When weight slowly crept back on, they started to feel too short so some I had lengthened. Now that I am lean (!) again, the re-lengthened ones feel a little long. This made me wonder whether bulk impacts upon the question either aesthetically, or maybe somehow jackets are physically “pulled up” by extra mass in the shoulders/torso?
Jonathan
That can certainly happen, yes Jonathan. You’ll see it with shirts as well – when the material is being pulled even slightly, it can raise the jacket length
Hi Simon,
Great video. I’ve learned a lot from your website. I’ve got myself a nice vintage Donegal coat in grey herringbone inspired by your posts. I’ve found an excellent value off the peg worsted wool navy blazer, single breast, flapped pockets. My question is: should a blazer length be different to suit jackets? IE is it a shorter fit? I take it the arm length is the same. Kind regards
There is a tradition that they should be a little shorter, but really I think that’s been erased with the different lengths of jackets generally from different tailoring traditions now available.
I’d say more the opposite – make sure with something smarter, like a suit, that the rear is fully covered. With a blazer or sports jacket there is more flexibility.
Simon any thoughts on the length of jacket of possibly the most famous on screen bespoke suit of all time – Cary Grant’s in North by Northwest? The jacket looks around 1 1/4 -1 1/2 ” longer than the rule of ideally ending at the 2nd thumb joint.
Yes that’s a long jacket, much more in keeping with the fashions of the day. Looks good on Cary Grant but no so much on other shorter men you see on screen from that era. Today it would look very long
Simon given the default thinking that a jacket should typically end at the 2nd thumb joint roughly where would the shortest and longest tailors on the Row usually be in inches on either side of this deafult? Are we talking 2 inches or much much less? Presumably most Italian tailors cut their jackets much shorter again? A lot of current off the peg jackets are currenlty cut 2-5″ shorter than this rule of the 2nd thumb joint and it simply looks out of proportion. Thank You.
You can see how all the tailors I’ve used vary in length in the Style Breakdown section